The Independent Urologist observes:
I believe one can gain insight regarding what kind of patient they are going to be by asking them what type of doctor they are.
* Chiropracters: They uniformly introduce themselves as Dr____. In addition, they are most likely to ask for professional courtesy and to have their co-pays waived. (see copay)
* Dentists: Almost always introduce themselves as Dr and are most likely to “Know from dental school” as much as you do about their problem, especially the older ones.
And the list goes on to PhD’s, psychologists and medical doctors.
Related posts:
- Dentists and the reimbursement boom
- Dentists are getting into the medical spa business
- Forced air into the cheek and neck by the dental equipment
- From doctor to physician assistant?
- The incoming CMA president wants to introduce some market health reforms in Canada
- Should doctors learn to become dentists?
- Why would a doctor stop seeing patients?
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{ 23 comments }
It’s all about insecurity. I’m a medical doctor and do not even introduce myself a ‘doctor’ to my own patients. I know who I am, they know who I am, we have no need to create any sort of heirachy or power structure so it all works just fine.
Most people will then choose to address me as Dr. anyway. Those most likely to latch onto my first name are the business types in the power suits. I think it is all about the power game they play at work that carries over.
I have a PhD in chemistry. The only time I use the title “Doctor” is in making hotel and dinner reservations. The hotels and resturants assume that I’m an MD and therefore wealthy, demanding, and arrogant. It sure improves the service.
As a common courtesy, I always introduce myself to my patients as doctor. Additionally, I always have a visible nametag with my medical degree displayed. FYI, this is now law in Florida and in my opinion a good thing.
the only arrogant scientists i meet r those prima donnas who are young and extremely gifted in math, and even they scough at the term Dr expect at formal conferences.
almost every doc i meet (usually firing away at sub 105 IQ) is arrogant, egotistical, and clearly proud of their “training”. The attitudes which the doctor class retain, would be more at home on a plantation, manor house, or feudal aristocracy (or even junior high) than in free democratic open society.
dr, please ! more like glorified waitstaff / mechanics
Speaking of insecurities, Doesn’t it seem like people who habitually belittle and put down physicians do so only to make themselves feel more important by comparison.
To be honest though, I’ve heard the comparison between physicians and mechanics before and think that it’s essentially true, albeit on a much more complex machine, but waitstaff? I can’t even see where that guy is coming from.
I don’t think that people should all worship physicians, but belittling their “training” is pretty ridiculous. I can’t think of any profession that has a longer or more difficult training than physicians… but that might just be some self-centered egotism on my part…
It is always reassuring to see someone with a Ph.D. who can’t bother to write clearly and use punctuation. It certainly sells the value of that kind of doctorate, whatever you may think of the M.D.
I also have found high-level business types to play the first-name game. I reply with their nominal title of Mr. or Mrs. They either get the message or don’t, and it doesn’t matter to me.
I also agree that there are quite a few people who spend time posting who ought to know better than to have disdain for another profession’s rigor and lengthy training, even if they would not choose that path for themselves. I don’t see where I should show disrespect for the lengthy training that a learned Ph.D. with several postdocs would have; a decent and truly learned professor ought to be able to manage the same in return.
It is evidence of a particularly sad form of ignorance and bad manners to read so much of this kind of thing here and elsewhere.
My wife has MD, PhD, and masters degree. She is also a Colonel in the Army. I am glad I can still just call her honey.
I don’t think MDs should be called “doctors” at all. It’s a first degree in medicine, after all. Let the term be reserved for people with both MD and PhD.
“quite a few people who spend time posting who ought to know better than to have disdain for another profession’s rigor and lengthy training, even if they would not choose that path for themselves”
OK, so why misbehave ?
i am not belittling a group disenfranchised and without priveledge (extreme)
the structure of medicine is set up so that inequitable distribution will force people to be grateful for even basic service- and thats a fact! artificial scarcity is very real!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-02-doctor-shortage_x.htm
no service-side innovation (beyond elitist boutique), over half of bankruptcies r medically related, residency training analogous to hazing ritual
All this fundamentally stems from a feudal concept of being better than someone else because of priveledge (or proper grammer)- in this case the priveledge to sell information free of market pressure; to close rank, opaque, with med error in top ten ways to die in US.
well, we live in the information age- prepare for change as science works around you
(functional genomics, biochips, nanoparticles… should render a docs attitude obsolete within the next 20yrs- until then will have to rely on the better recovery rates and transparency of overseas markets to take care of my family)
more like me:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/4/105428/3568
kampai
thanks for the tip:
…use the title “Doctor” in making hotel and dinner reservations. The hotels and resturants assume that I’m an MD and therefore wealthy, demanding, and arrogant. It sure improves the service
(next time, ill give it a try)
>>”I don’t think MDs should be called “doctors” at all. It’s a first degree in medicine, after all. Let the term be reserved for people with both MD and PhD.”
Well, go and do the same. Most people would not agree with you, including the many representatives of the universities that confer those degrees. I and my classmates wore green hoods at graduation, and it was because we were considered graduates of a doctoral program.
As tradition goes, even for people whose first university degrees were in medicine (MBBS, MBBCh.) the title still extends. In the U.S, Canada and elsewhere, the degree is conferred at the graduate level and generally requires a bachelors degree with qualifying coursework.
As medicine is only taught at the graduate level here, it only makes sense that graduate degrees be conferred. If anything, medical doctors deserve a master’s degree in course–they complete enough credit hours and at the appropriate levels to earn that degree–but that has not been the tradition.
Like our legal brethern, perhaps perversely, masters’ degrees are conferred after the doctorate and usually are limited to a specialised discipline within medicine, physiology or a related field. At one time, some medical specialties required earning a masters in that specialty, ophthalmology being one that did.
In dentistry, this is still commonplce in that profession’s subspecialties (e.g. an MSc. in Periodontics).
As far as M.D, Ph. D.s are addressed, “Dr.” is sufficient, but in more situations in more formal places, e.g. Austria, that person would be addressed “Dr. Dr. . . .”
And you know the rest of the song.
Be careful of those priveledges. You might fall off and hurt yourself.
Green hood or not, you are not viewed as a “doctor” by most of the world, including the part that originated the term. You wrote no dissertation, and do not deserve the title. And in Austria, they call doctors “Arzt,” and would never call someone with an undergraduate degree in medicine “doktor.”
Have a look at the wikipedia article on Doctor(title).
>>”Green hood or not, you are not viewed as a “doctor” by most of the world, including the part that originated the term. You wrote no dissertation, and do not deserve the title.”
Sounds like the resentful musings of a non-Ph.D., or at least one who has yet to appreciate that the world of doctorates extends beyond the world of graduate Ph.D. programs. Actually, outside of your evidently small world, we very much are viewed as doctors, as are dentists, and veterinarians. Why there is a whole wide world of Th.D.s, D.D.s Ed.D.s and D. Phil.s who are doctors. (Doesn’t that infuriate you?) Writing and successfully defending a dissertation is the requirement for most Ph.D. programs, but theirs is not the exclusive domain of the doctorate, nor are those programs the arbiter of who is entitled to the title (other than for their own graduates) as much as you might wish otherwise.
You do have a bee in your bonnet about this. Sorry, but the rest of the world does think of M.D.s as doctors; it is usually the Ph.D. types who run around introducing themselves as “doctor” that gets the roll of an eye. Usually that is an indicator that the “doctor” got left at the platform when the tenure train pulled out.
“Sorry, but the rest of the world does think of M.D.s as doctors…”
Umm, no, unless you consider (as many Murrikuns do) the rest of the world as within the boundaries of the USA. Have a look at that wikipedia article I pointed you at. You may find it instructive.
Believe it or not, I have been outside of the U.S., and in some pretty varied and far-flung places, as a “Murrikun” would say, and things were as I thought. Now it wouldn’t surprise me that academics with Ph.D.s elsewhere whose pants are in as much of a bunch as some here evidently are might think medical doctors were undeserving of their doctorates (but they might think the same of some of their own Ph.D. academic brethern too).
But sorry, in lots of places M.D.s are addressed as “doctor” and thought of the same. Seen it. Heard it, and not just in situations where some were trying to be polite.
Your argument is not only baseless, it’s just silly, and is more an object-lesson on peevish envy and resentment of another profession than anything else.
Have a look at the wiki article you cite yourself. Except for in Austria with the distinction “Arzt”, most of Europe follows the same convention as North America (or we follow them as is more likely the case). The same is true in South America, India and the Middle East.
fundamentally “who cares”…
the only distinction is based on the implied feudal undertones of belonging to a distinct class… (this is bad)
so again, if supply increase the feudal overclass vanishes and free market dynamics bring competitive services to consumers
all hail the bazaar
This is an interesting debate. I didn’t know that Americans/Canadians/UKers are using the term wrong. As someone with a PhD, who wrote a dissertation which (as all such dissertations do) broke new ground in my field, I must admit I resent people who didn’t do those things calling themselves doctor. Maybe “physician” is a better term?
Those most likely to latch onto my first name are the business types in the power suits. I think it is all about the power game they play at work that carries over.
I’d bet it is a habit more than anything else. It is customary in big US corporations to address everyone by the first name – employees regardless of their education level, managers, CEO, company lawyers. A CEO of a Fortune 500 company that employs 300,000 people world-wide would always sign his e-mails to employees by his first name. The e-mail can still mention plans to layoff 5000 people. So I bet he thinks “if all-powerful-me is addressed by the first name …”.
For me “Doctor” (with a capital ‘D’) is a title of respect inferring not merely a qualification and considerable learning, but a hefty dollop of wisdom and compassion. This in turn infers a breadth of knowledge, emotional maturity and understanding often singularly lacking in both academics and medical doctors.
Re the latter, it is such a very great pity that “medicine” has become synonymous with pharmacological prescription and further that a typical GP’s CPD is limited to reading advertising pamphlets distributed by the pharmaceutical industry.
That’s why I personally refrain from calling anyone “Doctor” until they’ve shown themselves to be a truly compassionate and learned scientist. The difference is often that found between a person who believes they know it all, and the person who really appreciates how much we have yet to understand.
Just my thoughts!
To anyone who happens to read this comment section, one reason why medical doctors in some European countries are not addressed as “Dr.” is simply because the medical profession in those countries does not require the same level of education as it does here. Case in point, I have a Russian friend who had to repeat medical school when he moved to the US because his Russian medical degree was only considered equvalent to a masters degree in America.
The MB(Bachelor of Medicine)in Europe like Britain is equivalent to the MD in the USA. The MD in Britain is like a PhD in medicine. Many US doctors are arrogant/overpaid/overated. IMO, PhD is the higher degree, although both are nice. It’s just that MDs tend to flaunt themselves too much. Seriously doc, you’re not above the rest. You don’t have to be a genius to do medicine, this isn’t rocket science. I’d imagine most MDs could never get a PhD in math/theoretical physics.
Obviously, I came to this thread years after it went dead, but I have a thought to share. I think PhDs should NOT be called doctors and the title reserved for MDs. Why would I say this, even though I am a PhD myself?
It is because PhDs are about basic research where what the public at large thinks is worth nothing. The problem is that there are lots of posers: PsyDs, ThDs, DEds, etc. which are not major academic accomplishments at all which can be used to fool the public. Currently, it is not necessary to be a medical doctor to be called “Dr.” That is why every damn chiropractor, ThD, homeopath, etc. usurps that title.
Yes, PhD are most certainly real doctors, but since the title of doctor in modern society is more about prestige than about achievement, the first priority is to keep impostors off. A PhD will produce just as good research in a lab without being called Doctor, but chiropractors will be able to rip off fewer people if they didn’t use the title.
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