Medical school interview secrets [PODCAST]

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“When you’re applying to medical school, it’s remarkable how much four years or more of intense work can come down to one single day. The medical school interview is high stakes: studies have found that interview performance is the most important factor in admissions decisions.

While your MCAT score and your GPA can help secure an interview invitation, it’s your interview performance that matters most when it comes to acceptance to medical school.

I’ve advised many students who are prepping for their interviews, and what I’ve found is that overall they’re great about avoiding certain common mistakes. They practice their handshake, know what to wear, and already researched the school’s interview format.

But I’ve found that many talented and highly accomplished applicants still make several other (very common) mistakes in their interview preparation.”

Rajani Katta is a dermatologist and author of Conquer the Medical School Interview and The Successful Match.

She shares her story and discusses her KevinMD article, “5 common and commonly overlooked mistakes in the medical school interview.”

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Hosted by Kevin Pho, MD, The Podcast by KevinMD shares the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from.

Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show, where we share the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from. My name is Kevin Pho, founder and editor of KevinMD. Today on the show, we have Rajani Katta. She is a dermatologist, she’s the author of the course “Conquer the Medical School Interview,” and she’s the author of the book “The Successful Match.” She wrote the KevinMD article “5 common and commonly overlooked mistakes in the medical school interview.” Rajani, welcome to the show.

Rajani Katta: Oh, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me on.

Kevin Pho: We’ll get into the article a little bit, but first off, can you share your story and your journey to where you are today?

Rajani Katta: Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I’m a board-certified dermatologist, and for most of my career, I was a professor of dermatology at the Baylor College of Medicine. During that time, I was really involved in medical student education. I was in charge of the dermatology clerkship, and then I was in charge of dermatology education for the basic sciences.

As you know, dermatology is a really competitive specialty to get into, and it just kept rising in competitiveness. So I mentored a lot of medical students and dermatology resident applicants over the years, and that really drove my wanting to write books. The first book I wrote was “The Successful Match,” on how to succeed in the residency match, and that really came about because of my work with the students.

Kevin Pho: Excellent. Over the years, how have medical students evolved and changed in your time doing this?

Rajani Katta: Well, that’s an interesting question. I remember, early on in my career, I feel like it was very defined in a way. I would have medical students come up to me after my lecture, and they would say, “Tell me what’s on the test, and then I’m going to study for that, and I’m going to memorize that.” And I feel like students, as the years have progressed, have become sort of far more interested in the story behind just the lecture. In later years, I would have students come up and ask me really interesting questions that were not just related to the test.

So in one way, I feel like that’s changed. But in the other way, the thing that I think is really hard for medical students today is that I definitely see a lot more anxiety. First year hits, and they’re already thinking about how they’re going to get into residency. So it’s a little bit of an unfortunate reality of how competitive the process is, but that’s one of the changes I’ve definitely seen.

Kevin Pho: And of course, we’re one year into the pandemic. How have you seen the pandemic affect medical students, from your experience with them?

Rajani Katta: Well, I work closely with a small group of medical students who are thinking about applying to dermatology, and it’s really been hard for so many students. I mean, all of these away electives, within the span of a week, were just gone. And it’s not just dermatology applicants. I also work with other students who are applying for residency, and all of a sudden, everybody’s having to modify their match strategy.

I talk a lot about residency match strategy, and a key part of that is letters of recommendation. All of a sudden, these students are not in clinic anymore, and they’re not getting letters of recommendation. So, a huge effect on their medical school education. Obviously, they’re not getting that clinical exposure, but then a secondary effect of that has been how it affects their residency match application.

Kevin Pho: In the pandemic era, what would you say is your number one tip that you can share with medical students who are thinking about the match in the coming year?

Rajani Katta: Well, I think one of the keys is to really find clinician mentors that you can work with now. That may not be possible in terms of a clinical rotation, but there are a lot of opportunities besides just being in a clinical rotation to be able to connect with and learn from other faculty. I’ve actually had people just reach out to me. I write a lot about the link between diet and dermatology; that’s one of my research interests. So I’ve had students just reach out to me and ask, via email, “Can I write a paper with you?” or, “Is there any research that you’re involved with?” And I know some of my students have really worked hard to try to find telemedicine rotations.

So I think one of the keys is to try to make those connections any way that you can with other faculty, whether that’s at your program or across the country. But definitely, if you haven’t already made a lot of connections within your own program, that’s the place to start. I find that a lot of faculty are just so great about mentoring medical students, and they’re really open. If it’s a student from their own program reaching out, saying, “Can I set up a meeting with you?” most faculty are really open to that. I’d have to say that’s my key takeaway right now.

Kevin Pho: All right, so let’s transition into your KevinMD article, and it’s titled “5 common and commonly overlooked mistakes in the medical school interview.” Now, for those who didn’t read that article, can you just walk my audience through it and share the story of why you decided to write it?

Rajani Katta: So I’ve been an interviewer for many years, mainly for dermatology residency. One of the things that always struck me: We’d have 15 interviews over the course of the day, and by the end of that day, all of these fantastic applicants kind of start to blur into one another. So one of the key mistakes that I really tell my students, the people that I’m advising, is that you need to make sure that you’re not sounding like every other applicant. I mean, that’s mistake number one.

And right alongside that is that a lot of students don’t provide what I call evidence. One of the questions that I love to ask at the end of every interview is, “We have a lot of great applicants. Why should we choose you?” And I get a lot of the same answers: “I’m a hard worker. I’m a team player. I bring my best every single day to work.” And you do sound like every other applicant, mainly because you’re describing characteristics that are very common.

So one of the things I really talk about is the need to include evidence, and by evidence, I really mean stories. I’m a big proponent of storytelling in medical education, and I’m a big proponent of storytelling in your interviews. All that means is that you really share a personal story or an anecdote that can back up what you’re saying. So it’s not just, “I’m a hard worker, and I am very persistent, and I’m a team player.” It’s, “When I was in college, I started this organization,” or, “My organization that I was vice president of had this mission, and so I started a project, and this is what we did, and this is who we worked with, and by the end of one year, we were able to achieve XYZ.” So you’re demonstrating those traits; you’re not just saying them. I’m a big proponent of that whole idea of evidence.

Kevin Pho: Wonderful. That’s the exact same advice I give to medical students who reach out to me as well. I think that if you share a story, it resonates so much more with the interviewers. Now, what other tips can you share with prospective medical school applicants?

Rajani Katta: The other thing: I sometimes sit down with a student for the first time, and I’m looking over their CV, and I’m asking them interview questions, and it’s interesting to me how sometimes they don’t pick up on some of the fantastic things that they’ve done. So I really talk about the need to analyze your own activities, to really sit back and think, “Well, yes, I was an officer of this club, but what did that actually mean? How did it strengthen certain characteristics, how did it help me uncover my own strengths?” And the same thing with research. Did that research activity uncover a passion that you have, or a purpose? Are you going to be interested in the biochemical underpinnings of disease, or are you going to be interested in health care disparities? How have your activities, how has your research, really helped uncover that for you? So that’s the first thing. I think it’s really important to just spend a lot of time sitting down and analyzing your own activities.

And the flip side of that is that sometimes I see students who have not researched the school in depth enough. I always say that if you give an answer that could have been given by another applicant, then your answer’s not strong enough. So one of the things I really say is that the strongest answers are the ones that highlight your own unique characteristics or strengths or skills, and that also highlight unique characteristics or traits of the medical school. What that means is you do have to spend a lot of time really researching the school: What are the aims of the school? What are their areas of excellence? What are some of their initiatives? What are some of the opportunities that are available there that you can’t find anywhere else? What are some unique features of the curriculum?

And I have a mnemonic; it’s the AEIOU approach to researching a medical school. I actually just have a worksheet, and I said, “You’re going to sit down in front of your computer, and let’s start with the website, and then start talking to other medical students, and faculty even, and start filling in that worksheet, A, E, I, O, U, and see where your strengths and background intersect with what the school is working on.”

Kevin Pho: Now, what are some tips that you could share to help students prepare for the interview itself, in terms of telling a story? And especially during a pandemic, we’re having a lot of these virtual interviews. So what are some tips that you could share with prospective medical students, and how they could hone their interview skills?

Rajani Katta: Well, I’d have to say the first one is a little bit obvious but sometimes can be underrecognized in importance. In a real interview day, we really talk about the importance of grooming and wearing certain clothing. You want to project an image of professionalism. The same applies for a virtual interview. So you really want to make sure that you’re prepared for your virtual interview, that you have all the basics down: the software, the headset, or the lighting. All of those can make a difference in a virtual interview.

But then beyond that, one of the things I say is that it’s so important to really practice. You don’t ever want to memorize your responses, but it’s really important to practice. There are lots of resources out there that highlight some of the common medical school interview questions, and I have a blog post where I have over 300 common medical school interview questions. But if you really analyze that, it really condenses down to maybe 30 main medical school interview questions. So you want to make sure that you’ve read and are prepared.

And then the big ones: You really want to make sure that you have some stories. This is where you have to spend that time really thinking about your past and your activities. For example, if I was to ask you, “What’s your greatest strength?” I really want you to think about that and not just give me a greatest strength, but try to think of a story that highlights that. Same thing with greatest weakness. Same thing with, “What are you most proud of?” So sit down with those questions and really think about how you’ve demonstrated that in the past.

Kevin Pho: I asked you earlier in this interview how residents have changed over the years, but I’m going to ask you now: How have medical school applicants changed over the years?

Rajani Katta: One of the big things is that they are really educated and informed about the medical school application process. So I think one thing to recognize is that a lot of your colleagues are spending a lot of time researching the medical school process and knowing what they need to for applications.

And I’d also say that there’s a lot more actual experience in medicine, whether that’s shadowing or working in the medical field. I think there’s a lot more awareness of how important that is, before you devote yourself to a medical career, to be able to get some of that clinical experience in some way. So I think a lot of applicants are aware of that, and they’ve really been able to focus on having that experience before they come in for an interview.

Kevin Pho: We’re talking to Rajani Katta. She is a dermatologist. She wrote the KevinMD article “5 common and commonly overlooked mistakes in the medical school interview.” Now, you have a course for medical school interviews, and I see a lot of consultants that offer tips and admission tips for getting into medical school. If you’re a prospective applicant, are those things necessary?

Rajani Katta: I would say that it really depends on your comfort level. So I would say that it’s not necessary, but it can be very helpful. For example, if you have outstanding grades and outstanding scores, I really do want to emphasize that if you look at the latest AAMC data, one out of five applicants with a really great GPA and MCAT score are still not going to get into medical school, and that’s probably related to their interview performance. So I think it’s really important to get feedback on how well you interview and how well you’re able to convey your strengths and your qualities and your fit with that particular medical school. And if you’re not getting excellent feedback, then I think it’s really worth it to seek perhaps some professional advice or some professional coaching on interviews.

I would also say that even if you’re an outstanding applicant, if you’re aiming for a very competitive school, that’s where it can be really helpful. So if you’re aiming for a highly selective medical school, where they have a lot of applicants with great scores and great grades, sometimes a professional coach can help you really hone your message and really target what you can be focusing on.

And then the flip side of that: If you do not have those really high grades and scores, then it may be helpful to really, again, hone your message, because we know that there are fantastic physicians who did not necessarily have the highest scores or the highest GPA. But this is where you have to really be able to get across your message to that medical school admissions committee of why you would be a fantastic physician. So I think those are three situations in which coaching could be helpful.

Kevin Pho: Now, if you didn’t have the highest MCAT scores, or if your GPA isn’t where you want it to be, can the interview process, if you’re a stellar interviewer, overcome that?

Rajani Katta: Oh, for sure. I mean, if you just look at the AAMC breakdown, they have that fantastic chart where they show you GPA and MCAT score at different levels, and there are always outliers. So you do see outliers with lower GPAs or lower MCAT scores, and a lot of those outliers, it’s because they’re able to really convey in an interview that they have something fantastic. Typically, they have an area of excellence in their background, and they have to be able to convey that in an interview. So that area of excellence might be community service, or it might be leadership, or it might be research, but you have to be able to convey that strongly in an interview, and that’s where I think it could help.

Kevin Pho: I’ve given so many great tips to prospective applicants in this podcast here. What’s something that you feel is overlooked? What’s something that’s not apparently obvious that prospective medical students should look out for in the application process?

Rajani Katta: As they’re applying, I think sometimes the secondary applications now may ask you some more challenging questions. So I think you really need to be thinking along those lines: During an interview, you might be asked some of these challenging questions. I think one of the hardest that I’ve seen for some of my advisees is some of the behavioral interview questions. And behavioral interview questions, the premise is that your behavior in the past predicts behavior in the future.

So I think one of the challenging ones, especially for younger applicants, is some of those ethical questions. So I think it’s really important to be prepared for those kinds of questions: “How have you handled a conflict situation in the past? How have you handled somebody who wasn’t doing their part?” Those are some challenging questions, and I think it’s really important to spend some time thinking about those kinds of questions.

Kevin Pho: And my final question: What is your take-home message that you want to leave with the KevinMD audience?

Rajani Katta: Well, I think my take-home message is that the medical school interview can be challenging. Even though medical school applicants spend a lot, I mean, we know they spend years on their GPA, they spend months on their MCAT, some of them only spend days on interview prep. And I would say that it is just as important to spend that real time and preparation for your medical school interview in order to really present yourself in the best light possible.

Kevin Pho: And how can people reach you?

Rajani Katta: Our website is TheSuccessfulMatch.com, and there’s a way to sign up there where you’ll get a free excerpt of the medical school interview book. So it’s TheSuccessfulMatch.com, and there’s a place for pre-medical students to just sign up.

Kevin Pho: Thank you so much for sharing your time and insight, and thanks again for being on the show.

Rajani Katta: Oh, thanks for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

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