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“The retreat offered me the opportunity to see that I want more time (don’t we all) to connect with quiet, peace, and loved ones. I want to embody love as well as the badass that I am. That’s what I got out of the retreat and what I brought home with me. I also brought home a passion to get a full-sleeve tattoo (reflecting love and badassery). Who knew?”

Wendy Schofer is a pediatrician.

She shares her story and discusses her KevinMD article, “Why physicians should go on a retreat.”

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Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show. Rate and review at KevinMD.com/rate. Subscribe at KevinMD.com/podcast. Today we welcome back on the show Wendy Schofer. She’s a pediatrician. We’re talking about her KevinMD article titled “Why physicians should go on a retreat.” Wendy, welcome back to the show.

Wendy Schofer: Thank you so much. It’s wonderful to connect with you.

Kevin Pho: So you’ve been on the show multiple times, but for those who didn’t get a chance to listen to our first few episodes together, just briefly share your story and journey to where you are today.

Wendy Schofer: Yeah, thank you so much. It’s always a pleasure to be here. I always wonder which version of the story I’m going to tell, but I can tell you that I am a practicing pediatrician. I did my early career, my training, in the military, and then after my active-duty time, I transitioned to the reserves. I proudly say that I just retired from the United States Navy Reserves last year, and so that is a joy in my life. I cannot believe I’m old enough to say that.

But now I’m experiencing my practice in the community here in Virginia. Part of it is in the office, part of it is out in the community, and there’s my coaching practice as well. So it’s kind of a little bit of everything for me, and that’s how I like it.

Kevin Pho: So what’s something that’s not apparently obvious when it comes to practicing in the military?

Wendy Schofer: Wow, not apparently obvious. I think the biggest saying that we have all the time, that others may not always know, is the part about how the grass is not always greener on the other side, and it goes both ways. There are many challenges with being a military physician, having the different constraints within the system, within the military structure, but we know those same or similar constraints are in the civilian world as well. So it’s funny how I get questions all the time about what it’s like on the other side. I’m like, “It’s just a different flavor. We still have our own issues, whether you’re in uniform or out in the civilian world.”

Kevin Pho: So what are some examples of some of these constraints within the military?

Wendy Schofer: Oh, my goodness. I mean, like everywhere: not enough money, not enough personnel, really trying to do as much as humanly possible with as little as humanly possible, which sounds pretty darn familiar for those in the civilian sector as well. But it’s something where we’re always trying to do our best, and that’s really just an ongoing fact of life in medicine. So again, it may not sound very different from the civilian world, because it truly isn’t.

Kevin Pho: Any lessons that you’ve taken from your experience in the military into practicing pediatrics on the civilian side?

Wendy Schofer: You know, I think that a lot of the lessons that I learned the hard way in the military are much more clear to me now with experience. But even more so than with my clinical background, it’s about my experience with coaching, and that’s about the mindset that we have within different scenarios. I remind my husband all the time, who is also a military physician and continues on active duty at this point, I remind him that he is so freaking lucky because he has a very flexible wife. And that wasn’t something I always was; I wasn’t always so flexible in my approach. When I left active duty, nothing could stop me. I wanted to leave as fast as humanly possible, and then I came right back just a few months later because I missed it.

I realized along the way that it’s what we make of it. It wasn’t about being active duty, it wasn’t about the station, it wasn’t about the structure of the clinic; it was what I made of it. So even now, as he continues on his active-duty journey and we don’t know exactly where we’re going to be or for how long, I know that wherever we go, it’s going to be the perfect place for us. I know that wherever we go, we will make the best of it. That’s something that I take with me in my civilian practice, that’s something that I actively practice at home, and it is very helpful in the military, when there are a lot of things we don’t have control over. But I do have control over how I’m going to approach it. So it’s been one heck of a practice opportunity for me to practice mindset tools all along the way.

Kevin Pho: All right. Your KevinMD article is titled “Why physicians should go on a retreat.” Now tell me, how did this article come together?

Wendy Schofer: It’s funny, coming from the discussion about the military background. I always thought that a retreat was something that was foo-foo and too expensive and not for me. That was something that only those other people took, although I couldn’t ever describe exactly what those other people looked like or what it was. But I was invited. A friend of mine was hosting a retreat, and it was in Hawaii, and it was with my friend, and so I was like, “OK, twist my arm. I have enough reasons here. I’m going to go and do it.”

I was so inspired by participating in this retreat, and that’s why I really wanted to write the article. I think that I got to learn a lot about what’s important to me, not just there on site in Hawaii, but what I want to take home from Hawaii with me, what I want to incorporate into my everyday practice, into my everyday perspectives. And that retreat was it.

Kevin Pho: How was it built?

Wendy Schofer: Yeah, so my friend Faryal Michaud is a palliative care physician and also a fabulous life coach for physicians about living life intentionally. So it was an approach of introducing folks, or diving a little bit deeper, into what it looks like to live life intentionally. That being said, that’s all I knew about the retreat. I knew basically what she was about and what her perspective was as she was inviting people, but there was no set agenda. We would meet up each day, and I knew that there would be some kind of group activities, but there was a lot of opportunity for me to just do what I wanted to do, whatever fueled me.

That was the part that really spoke to me, that I wasn’t going to be scheduled the entire time. It was an opportunity to go and do what I wanted to, and if I wanted to check out and not go, yeah, absolutely, bring it on. That’s the whole point. It’s a choose-your-own-adventure opportunity.

Kevin Pho: So you were at this retreat in Hawaii. How many other clinicians were there?

Wendy Schofer: You know, I think I said before we jumped in, with numbers I’m at somewhere around a dozen, plus or minus.

Kevin Pho: Were they all physicians?

Wendy Schofer: Yes, yep. This was specifically for female physicians.

Kevin Pho: And while you were in Hawaii at this retreat, tell me some things that you weren’t expecting. What surprised you while you were there?

Wendy Schofer: You know, it’s funny, the first thing that comes to mind is totally unrelated. I met John Cena. How about that? A completely awkward moment, because I wasn’t expecting it, and I got all fangirl and kind of crushing on him, so totally awkward because of me.

But what I wasn’t expecting, the most fabulous part of the retreat for me, was that I basically stayed on East Coast time. I was really messed up when I got there, and so I would be waking up anywhere between two and four in the morning, and I would just find myself alone on the balcony, listening to the ocean, drinking my coffee, and then I’d just go out for a walk in the dark. It was so valuable to me, because I really got to connect with that quiet that I wanted, that peace. I keep on coming back to a connection to myself.

I have learned over the years that while I love being with other people, and I can have a fabulous time and be one of the loudest people in the room, I know that I am actually fueled by quiet and by being with very few people. So I am grateful that my husband went with me on this trip. He went off and lived his best life golfing while I retreated, and it was really meaningful.

Kevin Pho: So tell me, in what specific ways did the retreat change you when you got back?

Wendy Schofer: Yeah, I think that it’s really the look at how a retreat is what you make of it. It’s not that I have to go off to Hawaii, which, I’ve got to tell you, was fabulous. The sights, the beauty, the sounds, everything is beautiful. It’s also really hard to travel that far. My body’s like, “What are you doing?” So I appreciate the opportunity to be able to look at what it is that worked for me there, what that retreat mentality offered me. And I come back to how I really value that quiet, that peace, that opportunity to disconnect, to turn off my phone, and to just walk away from it, because nothing else mattered.

And it’s so interesting that when I come back home, it’s like, “Oh, I’ve got to make sure that I’m staying up on this and that,” and checking on my business stuff and schedules and all of that. No, that’s a choice. That’s a choice I make as far as how much focus I want to put on that and how much I want to bring that into my life, versus saying, “You know what? It worked for me in Hawaii, where I could just retreat.” Not hiding from it, but deciding that that stayed in one place. Life goes on without me, and so I can still do what fuels me. And coming back, it’s just making me that much, I don’t know, stronger, better, a heck of a lot more patient when I have that fuel. And that fuel, just for me, is the rest, the quiet, the connection with those that I love.

Kevin Pho: How about the other physicians who were at the retreat? In general, were they burned out? Were they happy with their careers? What were some of the reasons why they went on the retreat?

Wendy Schofer: To be honest with you, you would have to ask them. I cannot say that this was something that was geared for burned-out physicians or for those who wanted something in particular, other than to dive into what it means to live intentionally. I mean, that was the theme. There were no particular objectives.

It was actually a funny joke; my husband had asked along the way. He’s used to the discussion about conferences and CMEs, and he’s like, “So what are the objectives?” And I said, “Honey, there are no objectives. And even if there were, the magical thing here is that whatever objectives Faryal has for hosting the retreat have nothing to do with my objectives for being there, because I’m going to get out of it whatever it is that I need to.” Which, I don’t know, I think of that as even the new version of adult learning for me. It’s not about what somebody says I’m going to get out of it; it’s what I get out of it.

And so each of the physicians that participated could have been there for a wealth of different reasons, and I can’t speak for them, but I do know that together we all found an opportunity to connect to what was most important for us individually. But it probably looks really different for each person.

Kevin Pho: So I come across advertisements for a variety of physician-only retreats, and you mentioned that your perceptions of retreats have changed. So as physicians listen to this, as they come across these retreats, what are some misconceptions that you want to potentially clear up?

Wendy Schofer: Misperceptions, misconceptions, whichever one it is, I would say look at what it is that you want more than anything else. What is it that calls to you? What is it that you want more of? There’s a wealth of different opportunities that are out there. For me personally, I was looking for something that was meaningful and valuable to me, and that’s all my definition, whatever’s meaningful and valuable to me. And that could be different at different parts of my life. It could be very different if I were looking to schedule another one right now versus when I went; I scheduled it over the summer to go in October.

But coming back to why I originally didn’t think it was for me in the first place, I think that was because I didn’t see a retreat as being something for me, or as something where I was at a place where I was worthy or in need of it. And for me, it’s not about the need. It’s not that there was some kind of particular void that needed to be filled. The retreat just helped me connect with what is more important, so I can let that lead the way going forward, and so that’s what I use. Other people, I get it. You want to go on maybe something that has a particular theme of adventure, or maybe it is a retreat that’s built around a topic. Go for it. It’s whatever calls to you.

Kevin Pho: We’re talking to Wendy Schofer. She’s a pediatrician, and her KevinMD article is titled “Why physicians should go on a retreat.” Wendy, what are some of your take-home messages that you want to leave with the KevinMD audience?

Wendy Schofer: I think it’s just opening up the possibility. What could it look like? What would it look like, in this case, with a retreat? But I think it’s the more that we ask ourselves, “What is it that is meaningful to me? What is it that I value? What do I want more of in my life?” and then give ourselves the opportunity to do that. And so the theme that I keep on coming back to is how I want more connection with what I love, including people, and also connection with myself. And so for me, that’s how this retreat was absolutely the answer. For others, it could look a little bit different, but what is it that’s most important to you, and then how can you let yourself have more of that?

Kevin Pho: Wendy, thank you so much for sharing your story, time, and insight. Thanks again for coming back on the show.

Wendy Schofer: Thank you so much, Kevin. Such a pleasure. Thank you.