“I propose that we look at what each choice in food does for us: How does it make my body feel? How am I able to sleep and move and focus when I eat this food? How am I giving my body what it needs right now and what will keep it strong over time? And, how is this food the perfect one that my body needs right now? Eating the food that fuels aspirations and performance is much better to produce positive change than fueling shame, guilt, and misery. As we practice doing better, we will find ways to help ourselves and our communities create the habit of positive change. Because you are not defined by what you eat.”

Wendy Schofer is a pediatrician.

She shares her story and discusses the KevinMD article, “We are not defined by what we eat.”

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Hosted by Kevin Pho, MD, The Podcast by KevinMD shares the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from.

Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show where we share the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from. My name is Kevin Pho, founder and editor of KevinMD. Rate and review the show at KevinMD.com/rate. Subscribe at KevinMD.com/follow.

Today we welcome back on the show Wendy Schofer. She’s a pediatrician, and she co-wrote the KevinMD article “We are not defined by what we eat.” Wendy, welcome back to the show.

Wendy Schofer: Oh, thank you so much. It’s such a pleasure to give this another try.

Kevin Pho: Our first episode was wonderful, so I encourage all the listeners to go seek that out. But for those who do get a chance to listen to our first episode together, Wendy, just briefly share your story and your journey to where we are today.

Wendy Schofer: Oh, yeah, thank you. I am a pediatrician, and I have had such a journey along the way here. I’ve had many years in a primary general pediatric practice. I went out into the community doing a lot of nonprofit work. I’ve been in the military; I’ve been a civilian. I’ve had a lot of different hats that I’ve worn over time. And now I find that my practice is split between part-time pediatric urgent care and also building out in another way in the community, with a coaching program that I own.

Kevin Pho: Excellent. So let’s go straight into this new article you co-wrote with your daughter. It’s titled “We are not defined by what we eat.” Now, for those of you who get a chance to read your article, can you just walk my audience through it and share the story of why both of you decided to write it?

Wendy Schofer: Yeah, absolutely, thank you. Someone had approached me and asked me to actually write an article that was entitled “We are what we eat,” or “You are what you eat.” And I was like, “Oh my God, I so don’t believe in that. Are you kidding me?”

And so my daughter and I were just kind of talking about how we disagree with all of the common things that we hear. They’re things that people have used, these phrases that we think are helpful, but they’re actually not being helpful, especially in today’s day and age. That whole concept of “you are what you eat” has turned into more of a value statement, more of a judgment about what people are eating, as opposed to how it’s been used historically, as an aspirational type of mantra.

Kevin Pho: So give us an example. What do you mean by that? Give us an example of why you don’t believe in that particular aphorism.

Wendy Schofer: Yeah, well, so, you know, if we go back even just looking within religion, so looking at Christianity, talking about the blood and body of Christ, well, you know, it’s sanctified, OK? It’s aspirational that what we’re eating is becoming a part of us, OK, and we are becoming holy through that.

And yet, as we look at how it’s used today, a lot of times when folks talk about “you are what you eat,” there’s an image that is associated with it. It’s this image of a very slim body that has all of these healthy foods, fruits and vegetables and tall glasses of water, inside of this image. And then on the other side, they have this pudgy person who is filled with pizza and processed foods. And it’s just all of a sudden saying, “OK, well, this person only eats this. This person is defined by what they’re eating.” It’s overly simplistic, and it’s not actually helping anybody, from the kids that we’re teaching to the adults who are trying to look at how they are eating, what their concerns are about their own weight and about their own eating habits, and trying to make change. But there’s a lot of that identity coming in when we start talking about “you are what you eat.” It’s just not helpful.

Kevin Pho: So obviously you’re a pediatrician. Take us into the exam room. What are some of these nuances that you’re talking about?

Wendy Schofer: Yeah, well, you know, there are so many levels of nuance with it. It’s really trying to look at all the things that we’ve learned as adults, especially as physicians, about what is healthy or unhealthy, maybe the right way to eat and the wrong way to eat, and how that is coming through in our language with our kids, how we’re teaching them to make different decisions about their food choices or how they’re going to move. There are a lot of layers of what’s healthy or unhealthy. And unfortunately, that is really creating a disconnect, because parents are thinking, “Ah, this is what my kid needs to do in order to be healthy.” And then the kid is like, “That’s not what I want to do. I don’t want to move like that. I don’t want to eat like that.” And so it becomes this kind of butting of heads.

So a lot of times, what we do is just kind of break it down. What is the actual goal here? How do we want to look at food in particular? So it’s something where I work with parents to be able to look at how we can use food as a fuel and how it fuels their body, and then how they can help teach that to their kids as well, as opposed to there being a right food or a wrong food. Because honestly, it’s not about the food. You know, there’s no one food that’s perfect. There’s no one food that’s awful. It’s just, how is it fueling our body right now?

In the article, we were talking about, you know, me eating a bag of cheesy popcorn, and it just happened to be the thing that I was eating right before I was writing the article. I’m like, “Hey, why not? I am not defined by that bag of popcorn.” I really enjoyed it, by the way. I really enjoyed that bag. But that’s the thing: It fueled me at the time. A lot of times, folks will look at it like, “Oh, well, this is the right kind of fuel.” No. You know what? I was fueled because I wanted to enjoy that bag of popcorn. There are no values associated with it. It’s just that I enjoyed it. We can make choices like that.

Kevin Pho: Yeah. What are some other questions that we can ask? It doesn’t have to be kids, but what can we ask our patients about nutrition that doesn’t confine or define them in a way that these aphorisms normally do?

Wendy Schofer: I love that question. I think it’s something that really kind of depends on the conversation that you’re already having with the patient. I think it’s looking at asking questions that get them to be able to explain how they choose to eat. It’s not asking, “Well, what kind of diet do you follow?” or asking yes-or-no types of questions, but, you know, “Describe to me how you choose what you eat. What’s on your menu?” Getting a little bit more insight opens up that conversation about why they choose certain foods. It gives a little bit more of a picture.

I really firmly believe that it’s not about the food. We focus so much on the individual foods that folks eat, and there’s so much more to the story about how they eat, why they eat, when they eat, and how much they eat. And I think that there’s a lot more of the story that we can get to, to really understand their relationship with food as well as their relationship with their body, by just asking those questions without a set agenda and just letting them roll with it.

Kevin Pho: Can you tell us a story, a case study, where you had success talking to one of your patients about nutrition? Give me an example where you moved the needle.

Wendy Schofer: You know, I think that probably one of the best ones is actually a compilation of parents in my first group coaching program. I had put out the call that I was interested in working with parents who were worried about their kids’ weight, specifically about having overweight children. The parents, they were all moms in that group, came in, and we worked together over time, just kind of understanding what our concerns were as parents. And I put myself right there in the middle of that pack as well, because there’s a lot of worry about our kids’ weight right now.

But as we worked together over time, it’s something that the parents would describe to me: “I realized that it isn’t about my child’s weight. It isn’t about what my child is eating. It’s actually about what I’m making it all mean. It’s my concerns about what weight means. It’s about my concerns about my own repeated diet, or always thinking that I have to lose 10 pounds.”

And so the success story in all of that is how every woman who came into that group came from a different perspective. They came from a different family background, different diets, different weights, everything. But they all got to that place of, “Oh, hold on a minute. This actually isn’t my child’s problem. It’s something that I get to work on. Now I get to understand, and I get to help them.” And that was a big aha moment, to really help the whole family. A lot of that work is with the moms, you know, with the parents, being able to make that change for themselves.

Kevin Pho: We’re talking to Wendy Schofer. She is a pediatrician, and she co-wrote the KevinMD article “We are not defined by what we eat.” So, Wendy, you mentioned that this popular reference, “you are what you eat,” is one thing that you certainly want to dispel. Are there any other sayings or proverbs regarding nutrition that you don’t necessarily approve of?

Wendy Schofer: It’s not about my approval. You know, I think that one of the big things is that parents are looking for the right way to help their kids right now. They’re looking for the right diet, they’re looking for the right plan, and the right foods. And I don’t know that that’s necessarily a euphemism or a saying, but I think it’s just dispelling that myth that there’s a right way that they’re looking for. Really, what I work with folks on is to really look at how they are already discovering what’s right for their family. The answer isn’t somewhere else. It’s really something where they are already discovering the clues, and then how can they make that.

Kevin Pho: And my final question: What are some of the take-home messages that you want to leave with the KevinMD audience?

Wendy Schofer: Oh my goodness. Well, I would love to say, first of all, that I want to give a shout-out to my daughter for helping me write this article. So it’s a family affair, which does come back to the whole thing about that message to tonight, your audience, thank you so much for premium, but it’s really a family affair. How can we work together as a family as we’re talking about food, as we’re talking about movement, as we’re talking about making lifestyle choices that we actually want to share with the whole family, not, you know, just quick fixes and diets where we’re like, “Oh, this isn’t good enough for everybody else”? Share it within the family.

That’s where my daughter was helping me out with writing this article. She is one heck of a writer. But it’s a shared experience, and she was actually talking with me through the writing of the article. She said, “Mom, you’ve really changed a lot over time. This is something you used to say.” I’m like, “I know, honey, I know. I’m evolving too.” We’re all trying to figure out what is helping us right now, and kind of like how the fuel is helping us, or how the food is fueling us, how is our approach helping us as well? And that whole thing about looking at food, “you are what you eat,” that’s not actually helping. And that’s an approach that’s evolved over time. We can all do it.

Kevin Pho: Wendy, thank you so much again for sharing your time and insight. Thanks for coming back on the show.

Wendy Schofer: Thank you so much, Kevin.