“Patients look to providers for guidance, wisdom, and hope. When patients receive a new chronic disease diagnosis, it can feel terminal to the layperson. Even pre-diabetes is traumatizing to an otherwise healthy adult.

We must not underestimate the power of our words.

Learn to see selling as a key skill to develop. As with other skills, it gets easier the more you do it.

When you have the know-how and enjoy selling, you will have more belief in yourself, your patient, and the treatment/healing process.

You reconnect to your purpose and share the gifts only you have. You live life with ease and joy. You feel better. Patients do better. Everyone wins.”

Cindy Tsai is an internal medicine physician and can be reached on Twitter @cindytsaimd.

She shares her story and discusses her KevinMD article, “Why selling will make you a happier doctor.”

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Hosted by Kevin Pho, MD, The Podcast by KevinMD shares the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from.

Transcript

Kevin Pho: Hi, and welcome to the show, where we share the stories of the many who intersect with our health care system but are rarely heard from. My name is Kevin Pho, founder and editor of KevinMD. Rate and review the show at KevinMD.com/rate. Subscribe at KevinMD.com/follow. Today we welcome back to the show Cindy Tsai. She’s an internal medicine physician, and she wrote the KevinMD article “Why selling will make you a happier doctor.” Cindy, welcome back to the show.

Cindy Tsai: Thank you for having me. It’s good to be back.

Kevin Pho: So, for those who didn’t get a chance to listen to our first episode together, just briefly share your story and journey to where you are today.

Cindy Tsai: Sure. So I am a board-certified internal medicine physician who transitioned to entrepreneurship, coaching, and speaking. My journey was that I’ve always been this high achiever and perfectionist, doing all the right things and checking all the boxes. Ever since I was young, I wanted to be a doctor, and I worked really hard to get to completing medical training. I started practicing as a primary care physician, and I was doing that for about five years, and I really realized that I wasn’t feeling fully fulfilled.

I think I was frustrated when I saw patients come in with all these pains and ailments that came from other parts of their life that they weren’t paying attention to. I really saw the impacts of chronic stress on the body, and I wanted to do more than simply prescribe a medication as a Band-Aid. I really wanted to look at the root cause and to offer healing on a deeper level. So I was feeling stuck myself, and thankfully I came across coaching a couple of years back. Through coaching, I learned so many tools and skills that it really inspired me to transition and to go down this entrepreneurship path now.

Kevin Pho: So over the last few years of your coaching practice, has it been what you expected?

Cindy Tsai: It’s definitely been a lot of surprises, and very, very different from traditional medical practice, which has been really fun, really, because I think there’s so much possibility and growth, which I love. So I’m really grateful to be able to do this.

Kevin Pho: All right, so let’s talk about your KevinMD article. I remember getting an email from someone after reading your article. It said, “No, we are not salesmen. Doctors don’t sell.” But you have to realize that in what we do in the exam room, we all are salesmen in a way. So let’s talk more about that. It’s titled “Why selling will make you a happier doctor.” So, for those who didn’t get a chance to read it, just briefly share the story of why you decided to write it, and summarize it.

Cindy Tsai: Yeah, so I think it came about because of my own journey, especially as an entrepreneur, really learning about marketing and selling and having a business. And I think so often we don’t think about that when we are in medicine, right? It’s almost like we go to our office or hospital, and patients are there, right? They need us.

And I think what I realized is that selling has such a bad rap, right? I think it’s because we associate it with these used car salesmen, right? And that bait and switch and all of that. But when you really think about it, selling is about deepening your connection with someone, right? It’s about knowing that you have something valuable to offer, and you’re sharing this with someone who needs it.

And I wanted to present this because we know now, especially with the pandemic, that health care provider burnout is at an all-time high, right? So many people are leaving medical practice. And so I really wanted to share this new paradigm: “Hey, I invite you to consider it as something that you could be really good at, and to have fun with it.” Because that’s what’s going to help you be more present when you’re with your patient, and that’s what’s going to help you find more meaning and purpose and joy in what you do. And then when you feel that, it is more likely that you’re not going to be feeling burned out and exhausted, right? Because you’re going to be enjoying what you’re doing and be able to have a fulfilling and rewarding life.

Kevin Pho: So give us an example, or tell us a story, of some of these techniques that you’re talking about and how physicians can use them in everyday practice.

Cindy Tsai: Yeah, so I think the first thing, in terms of selling, is that it really comes down to three principles in terms of a provider-patient interaction. Number one, you have to believe that you can help the patient. Number two, you have to believe that the patient is capable of change. And number three, you have to know that there’s a program and process that will support this transformation. And I think a lot of times we may miss one or two parts of this. I know that when you’re interacting with a patient, it’s really about helping them feel seen, heard, and understood, right?

So, for example, if your patient is really needing some type of lifestyle change, but they’re just not motivated or whatever, they’re not compliant, we really need to connect with them and to help them see the value of this process, right? And I think, as physicians, we are the experts, and we know how everything works. And so I think so often, when we’re not able to convey that in a way that the patient can receive, it makes it really hard, because the patients won’t actually want to do it. And then, as a physician, you’re frustrated, because you’re like, “Why won’t the patient just do this and follow through?” And then neither party feels good about the interaction.

And so I think so often physicians, we’re so fortunate, because patients trust us, right? There’s credibility just from being an MD. And I just really encourage everyone to see that we really can help so many people. And it’s just the little tweaks of really taking a moment to listen, taking a moment to ask, right? And I think also being OK with silence, and asking the patient, and really getting to the root of what’s going on, right? Usually it’s not the first reason that they say. There’s some type of underlying reason why they’re not doing what would be best for them. So that’s why I talk about selling as a way to really deepen your connection. I want you to really learn how to communicate it and share that with the patient in a way that they can receive it, so that they can really change their life for the better.

Kevin Pho: So I’m sure that this issue comes up when you coach other clinicians during your coaching practice. So what are some red flags that you see some of your clients doing, or things that you’ve heard, that may harm the connection that they have with patients? What are some things not to do that you see continually come up?

Cindy Tsai: Yeah, I think a lot of times it’s when we are not being present. And when we’re not aware of it, it actually comes across to the patient, or whoever you’re interacting with, right? And so it really is one of the quickest ways to really damage that sense of trust, right? It’s like if you’re with a friend and you’re having a meal together at this really nice restaurant, but the whole time you’re looking at your phone, and you’re not actually talking to them. So it’s the same thing, right? It’s like, how can you be present in that moment, and know that it doesn’t take hours, right? Sometimes it’s just that one minute, or even 20 seconds, of holding eye contact, of being silent, and really holding that space for people to be who they are. And I think when you do that, people feel safe and can share and be comfortable, and then that’s when you really deepen that connection and can help move people to where they want to go.

Kevin Pho: Can you tell me a success story of maybe one of your clients who has implemented some of your changes, and maybe a before-and-after picture of some of the techniques that they’ve implemented and the difference that has made in their professional lives?

Cindy Tsai: Yeah, definitely. So, for some of the physician clients I work with, a lot of them are very, very busy and overwhelmed, especially with all of the demands in our day: EMRs, being booked back-to-back or double-booked. And so in my coaching process and practice, I teach them to learn how to regulate their nervous system and that fear response, so that they can stay calm and present.

So it’s simple things like breaths. There are different breathing techniques that can be very helpful. There’s also a practice called EFT, emotional freedom technique, or tapping, which helps with keeping your system calm. Because a lot of times, when we’re stressed out, it triggers the sympathetic nervous system, and then we end up going down this spiral of being more stressed, and then getting more anxious, and we can’t think clearly, and then we’re impatient and overwhelmed. It’s like this snowball effect, right? So it’s important to learn how to pay attention to how you’re feeling and where you’re at, and be able to switch off that response, right? To get out of that survival mode so that you can stay calm and grounded. And then that way, you can really access that rational mind and be present when you are interacting in a professional setting, in a personal setting, whatever it may be.

And I’ve really seen this transformation in clients, where they’ve gone from constantly feeling really busy and stressed and exhausted to being a lot more calm, and being able to show up fully and manage their busy schedule with ease. They’re really grateful and excited to go through their day, and they know they have that confidence and grounding and security that they can handle it, and that they don’t have to do it in a very frantic, rushed kind of way. Because I think that’s also when mistakes can happen, right? Actually, we all have a limited amount of energy and focus. And so by learning how to train your mind through practicing mindfulness and all these other techniques, coaching, you can be more aware and actually choose to do things the way that you want to do them, instead of being reactive to it.

Kevin Pho: What are some of your take-home messages that you want to leave with the KevinMD audience?

Cindy Tsai: So I think the important message is to pay attention to what’s going on. I think so often we are on autopilot, and it’s just how our brains have evolved to help us conserve energy, because we don’t want to be processing and thinking new things all the time. It’s exhausting, and it uses up a lot of energy.

So I would encourage people to take breaths, just a simple inhale and exhale, and feel your feet on the ground. What does it feel like to be supported by the ground beneath you? Just take a moment to get into your body, and do a quick check-in and see, “Hey, how am I feeling? What’s going on?” Right? “Am I feeling stressed? Did something happen?” And really bring your attention to right now, because every time you’re worrying about something in the past, or something that’s to come in the future, you’re not present. And you also don’t have any control over what’s in the past or what’s in the future. So the number-one thing is to really be present and focus on the current moment, and to see, so that you can change things for good.

Kevin Pho: Cindy, thank you so much for coming back on the show and sharing your time and insight.