Big Pharma: There is nothing evil about making money

Big Pharma: There is nothing evil about making money

Am I an apologist for the pharmaceutical companies?  I don’t think so, but others may disagree based on some sympathetic Whistleblower posts that have appeared in this blog.  It is without question that the drug companies have been demonized and portrayed as rapacious gangs of greed who seek profit over all.  Haven’t you come across the pejorative term, Big Pharma?  Linguistical note:  The adjective “Big” means evil.

Consider:

Big Oil

Big Government

Big Tobacco

Get the point?

I’m not suggesting that the pharm guys and gals are all Eagle Scouts.  These companies operate to make money, just like car companies, the cosmetic industry, the airlines, banks and financial institutions, hospitals, manufacturers, the hospitality industry and retailers throughout the land.

Here’s a bold Whistleblower pronouncement.

There is nothing evil about making money.

Of course, I want our drugs to be safe and effective.  We need the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to provide oversight to protect the public interest.  I acknowledge that the industry needs external review and enforcement powers to keep the industry responsible and accountable.   There’s a reason that professional football games need referees.  Somehow, I don’t think that the honor system on the gridiron would be sufficient.  Players cannot police themselves.

But some of the constraints that drug companies face constitute unnecessary harassment that does not protect the public interest.   Pharmaceutical representatives, or drug reps, are prohibited from discussing off label use of their drugs with physicians.  (Off label refers to a medicine being used for a purpose not officially approved by the FDA.) I’ve always felt that this edict was silly and stifled communication between physicians and reps.   Yes, some drug reps have aggressively marketed their products for off label use. GlaxoSmithKline and Johnson & Johnson paid handsomely for committing this offense.

But, there is a clear difference between misleading promotion and honest communication.  If I question a drug rep about off label indications of a drug, a straightforward response  harms no one.  In fact, it may give me new knowledge that I could use to help a living and breathing patient.  Relax, patients.  I am well aware that pharm reps are sales folks and are not my primary resource for pharmaceutical education.  But good reps have deep knowledge of a very narrow medical issue – their products – and often know stuff that I don’t.   They may, for example, know of side effects of their medicines that are not widely known.

Keep in mind that most of the medicines that we physicians prescribe are off label, which is entirely proper and is acceptable to the FDA.  At present, the only folks in the country who can’t discuss off label use of drugs with me are the reps.

Recently, a federal appeals court set aside the conviction of a drug rep concluding that his marketing a drug for off label use was permissible under the freedom of speech doctrine. This ruling only applies to the region under the jurisdiction of the Second Circuit, but this will not be the last legal word on this issue.   More details appear in the New York Times piece that reported the decision.

Where should the line be set here?  I’m not sure, but I think the current FDA boundary is overly restrictive.   We need a dose of leniency and a tincture of common sense from Big FDA.

Michael Kirsch is a gastroenterologist who blogs at MD Whistleblower.

Image credit: Shutterstock.com

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  • ninguem

    I’ll say that about URL Pharma.

    Colcrys alone makes me hate their guts.

    • southerndoc1

      That’s the first thing that came to mind for me, also.

      • ninguem

        Were we separated at birth?

  • drd

    Remember the antitrust laws that you learned about growing up that define our country and make it a free competitive market? In 2005 it became legal for drug companies to buy off their competitors to NOT manufacture competing generics. You read that correctly.So here’s how it works. Big Pharma can’t legally extend their patent. So why not just buy off any future generic competition to not produce the generic, so you can maintain the current price of the brand that just went off patent? You think of course that’s not legal. After all there are antitrust laws in this country. Guess again. So far this has cost several billion dollars to the cost of healthcare but whose counting anyway? As Dr. Kirsh says they are only making money and what’s wrong with that?

    So an example of this is with lipitor which was suppose to go off patent March 2010 but lots of stalling by Pfizer made the previous 20 months quite profitable for them. This is from the Wall Street Journal July 6, 2012.” The lawsuit alleges Pfizer used “an overarching anticompetitive scheme” to delay generic Lipitor until November. Specifically, the drug maker was accused of the following: defrauding the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to obtain a Lipitor patent; filing a sham citizen petition with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration; and securing a 2008 agreement with Ranbaxy Laboratories Ltd. that barred Ranbaxy from selling generic Lipitor until November 2011.”

    So once again pharmacies are forced to buy higher priced brand name lipitor even after the patent expires. So now pharmacies are suing Pfizer. Here’s an added bit of interest. Fast forward to Nov 2012. I am opening up the WSJ taking my morning atorvastatin–generic lipitor as you all know. Before I swallow, I read that I might be swallowing glass. Yes glass. Ranbaxy the generic makers of lipitor are being recalled for having tiny glass particles in the lipitor. Because of the recall, there was concern that there might be a lipitor shortage! What a shame for Pfizer!! A coincidence I’m sure.

    But in case you were worried about whether Pfizer can be economically salvaged after generic lipitor is available fast forward to Dec 29 2012.
    From the New york Times “The Food and Drug Administration on Friday approved Eliquis, an anticlotting drug that has been highly anticipated by cardiologists and is expected to be a BLOCKBUSTER for Bristol-Myers Squibb, which will make the drug, and Pfizer, which will help market it.

    This is an example of how the pharmaceutical industry deals with times that may be more financially lean for them. There is no need to break the law. Just CHANGE the law. I am not sure how they changed the law since I am a doctor not a lawyer, but since 2005 somehow it has been legal for Big Pharma to buy off their generic competitors and drive up the cost.

    The Supreme Court will hear arguments in the case of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) vs. Watson Pharmaceuticals,in order to determine whether brand-name drug manufacturers can pay generic competitors to keep their cheaper products off the market. Even if the Supreme Court overturns this, the pharmaceutical companies have gotten billions from these years. And if they can break an antitrust law once –what prevents them from doing it again? Is this OK with you Dr. Kirsch?

    • Degrasse1926

      Is that you Alex Jones? Who is more corrupt, a company trying to keep making money on a great product or a company wiling to deny the world affordable medicine for a bribe? Generic companies are not altruistic.

      • drd

        never said they were. you missed the whole point of my post.

        • bill10526

          There was a point? I missed it too.

  • Lea Benson

    Oh Pahleeeeze! Statins cause diabetes and organ/muscle damage and are an unnecessary scourge. The drugs for MS and RA are just poisons and PHARMA makes billions by experimenting on helpless victims. They DON”T work and cause side effects that are untenable. Keep lying Dr. K.

    • bladedoc

      That must be why there are now TENS of non-pharma studies that show that statins reduce mortality in multiple conditions including severe injury and severe sepsis. Damn those sneaky drug companies that managed to invent a drug that saves lives even in conditions that the drug wasn’t initially invented for.

      • Justsayno!

        If statins are so great, then you would think that heart disease would have been eradicated. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that is the case.

        • bladedoc

          That is an asinine comment. 1. Mathematically even if statins delayed the onset of heart disease for 50 years heart disease would “not be eradicated”. 2. The life saving effect of statins are due to their anti-inflammatory effects and downregulation of the SIRS response to trauma and sepsis, completely separate from their cardiovascular effects.

          You clearly have no familiarity with the statin literature.

  • MKirschMD

    I won’t respond to the commenter who suggested I was prevaricating. With regard to business ethics of the pharmaceutical companies, this is a fair issue. I do believe that companies should practice ethically and demonstrate corporate responsibility. I believe the same standard should apply to our government. However, private businesses should be expected to vigorously and lawfully compete in the marketplace to sell their products and services. If there are laws that should be reexamined, such as with respect to generic medicines, then that is what we elect legislators to do. Shouldn’t you be directing your hostility toward congress rather than businesses that are legally operating according to congress’s laws? I’m suggesting that Pharma may be a convenient demon, but this target may be overly narrow.

    • drd

      Thank you for your response. I think there is a dynamic between big pharma and govt that never seems to get addressed. Big Pharma writes the laws to suit their business and the government goes along with this and does not protect the public’s interest. Both are at fault.

      But remember in a capitalistic society there is not a lot of funding for regulation and oversight of corporations at all especially for big pharma. But if I read your article it sounds like you feel it is ok to make tons of money but you seem to be unaware of how this is occurring. And then its expected for government to control that–or regulate. It just does not work that way in capitalism.

      • Degrasse1926

        Why single out pharma? Why not hospitals who upcode and milk DRGs? Why not the banks? Why not the auto industry?

        • drd

          all true. because this article is on big pharma.

    • Homeless

      It seems to me that finding a cure and making money are sometimes at odds…

      I would call a drug that cured a chronic disease to be a poor business model.

    • southerndoc1

      “private businesses should be expected to vigorously and lawfully compete in the marketplace to sell their products and services”

      So you would have no concerns with the WSJ story about the now hospital-owned dermatologist who, when doing a ten minute cryotherapy in his office, slaps on a $1500 faciiity fee that the patient has to pay?

      • drd

        And the issue is that big pharma MAKES THEIR OWN LAWS. They have now made it legal to violate antitrust laws. NY Times article shows they have made it legal to buy off generic competitors to NOT make generics, in order to extend their patent and charge the brand price.

        Since they make up their own laws, they are ‘lawfully” competing. The problem is it’s just not ethical!

        • Degrasse1926

          Is it ethical to take someone’s intellectual property and just hand it over to the public? Have you ever asked that question? What gives the government the right to determine how long someone can keep private property?

      • ninguem

        It makes me think of the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street.

        Occupy Wall Street: “Government is in bed with Evil Big Business. They collude and write rules for themselves, to the detriment of the public.”

        Tea Party: “Evil Government is in bed with Big Business. They collude and write rules for themselves, to the detriment of the public.”

        They seemed to be arguing over who’s the bad guy, Government or Big Business. I say they’re BOTH bad, and the fundamental problem is Big Government-Big Business collusion.

        • NormRx

          I somewhat agree with you, however I would say big government is worst. There is no company that has the power to kick in my door, throw me in jail, even kill me in the raid, freeze my bank account and take everything I have.

          I still don’t know what you mean by your first comment.

          • ninguem

            which comment?

          • NormRx

            “I’ll say that about URL Pharma.
            Colcrys alone makes me hate their guts”.

            This comment, What is URL Pharma and What is Colcrys?

        • drd

          And the latest is Big Pharma has rewritten the antitrust laws so they can buy out their generic competitors. Generic Lipitor (atorvastatin) was not available when its patent ran out because they paid off Ranbaxy and other generic competitors NOT to make atorvastatin. So everyone had to continue to buy the expensive pfizer brand Lipitor which of course made them billions.

          • kpagliai@hotmail.com

            Yeah, that happened for 6 months. Now its 4 dollars.

          • drd

            that’s the whole idea. they extend the time the brand is out till another blockbuster comes along. It was perfect timing for pfizer now that they have a new blockbuster brand out. Also remember the fundamental problem is big Pharma is still violating the antitrust laws by rewriting the laws. It is an ongoing problem no matter what the current cost of a particular drug is.

    • SBornfeld

      K Street. Just sayin’

  • PoliticallyIncorrectMD

    “Honest communication….” ?! Please!!!! You should reed Ben Goldacre’s “Bad Pharma”.

  • NormRx

    If it wasn’t for “Big Pharma” most of you doctors would still be doing blood- letting, wearing a mask and tossing chicken bones on to the table. For those of you that don’t like statins and think that they are poison I have a word of advice for you. Don’t take them, instead go to the “health food store” and listen to the resident authority on health and waste your money.

    I knew this quack chiropractor that didn’t believe in drugs or vaccines. However, when her father when into CHF was hospitalized and placed on Lasix and digitalis, she didn’t object. I asked her, “why didn’t you just crack his back.” She walked away from me.

    • ParkadamUnited

      Wonderful story!! its so true..half these quacks are hypocrites. Wait until they get RA and thier joints are eroding way while suffering intense bouts of pain. You’ll see how fast they run for those Pharma funded TNF inhibitors..which..um…per the data halts those erosions and contributes to slowinig down the disease progress (not a cure, but its a choice to slow things down and give comfort to patients so they can live their lives). Would also like to say the above go for surgery without Anesthetics (made by pharma!) or perhaps face Cancer without those science driven products that can curb tumor progression (also made by pharma).

    • guest2

      Classy.

  • http://onhealthtech.blogspot.com Margalit Gur-Arie

    The adjective “Big” does not mean evil. It means that the subject has enough power to unduly influence governments. History has repeatedly shown that such influence is not beneficial to the people, to put it mildly.

    True, there is nothing evil about making money, or any other activity, unless of course, you are hurting others in the process of enriching yourself. That’s why we have laws. The “evil” part comes in when those who are “Big” enough, use their influence to change/ignore the laws so they can enrich themselves while knowingly and deliberately hurting others.

    I don’t know if pharma does that, or not, but I do know that we have way to many “Big” players in this country lately.

    • drd

      i don’t know if you have time but it is eye opening if you read my post below on how they make their money. They have changed the antitrust laws so they no longer have to compete!

    • adh1729

      Couldn’t have said it better myself.
      All we have now in this country are “Big” players. The power of the American people is close to zero. Propaganda from the “Big” players has confused and divided the people and in such a state they are helpless.

    • Justsayno!

      Great post!!

  • markTX

    You people don’t know how much money goes in to developing a new medication. Your all a bunch of cry babies and you make me sick. Stop your complaining these Big Pharma deserve what they get paid, and that includes Purdue Pharma .

    M.S.B.

    • drd

      You apparently are not aware that they continually violate or shall I say change antitrust laws which has deleterious effects in cost on healthcare. You should read Dr. Ben Goldacre’s book. If you still think it is ethical then you obviously work for a drug company and must have a lot of stock in them.

      • Molly_Rn

        You mistake me for pro Big Pharma. I am on the other side.

        • drd

          ? I can see you are a logical person and appreciated your comments. Not sure why you would have thought otherwise.

          • Molly_Rn

            I must have misread your comment. Sorry.

    • Molly_Rn

      Perhaps you should read the article in the recent Time magazine about healthcare costs. They don’t spend the reams of money they claim to spend on R&D on new medication. It is a money making deal. So please don’t be a cry baby protecting Big Pharma. They have enough money to hire professional muscle and professional cryers.

  • Molly_Rn

    As my patient said, “ninety dollars for a capsule! What’s in that capsule? Fort Knox!”

  • markTX

    Big Pharma pays big money to put a new medication on the market.
    They pay for everything from Clinical trials to see how well their brand name med works and when they put that product out for the public to consume it works and works well 99% of the time. That’s leaving statins out by the way. Then when their patent runs out some fly by night generic company comes along at tries to compete making a cheap
    medication cheaper in price and cheaper the way it works. Generic Oxycodone ER was a joke, it never worked. That’s because they cant copy the time release Conitn, as a result the product was a flop and discontinued.This is why Big Pharma does not want their products copied by some generic version.Yes prices are high and it’s a shame it has to be that way but what can anyone do to change that,especially if it’s a medication that saves your life, or makes life a bit easier to live.
    I can care less what Ben Goldacre has to say, all he does is
    complain at put down everyone and everything, he never has a answer to the problem. All he has is a big mouth.

    • Degrasse1926

      Most people don’t know that generics only have to be 70% as effective as the brand name to get approval. Parenteral drugs only have to be bioequivalent, meaning they don’t even test for efficacy.
      Don’t forget that as soon as a product launches, Teva and Barr immediately file lawsuits to gain exclusivity on the generic for a short amount of time. Where do you think the cost of defending those lawsuits go? Generic companies don’t do R&D, they have bastions of lawyers for shakedowns.

    • Tommy Beau

      Nonsense. The reason Big Pharma does not want their drug’s copied is so that they can keep the price up and rake in the $$$ !

  • Doug Capra

    One could argue from an ethical point of view there there are totally different regions of “profit.” It’s not different like apples and oranges. It’s more like apples and beef steak. If an individual can’t afford a private jet, or the newest Lamborghini, or a large estate in Hawaii — that’s just life. It’s economics. You could argue that the profit margin on those items doesn’t matter. But if a patient can’t afford his or her medication for cancer treatment because the drugs are too expensive — that’s not just life — it’s death. In that case, the profit margin does matter as does the access. Now, you can argue the other side all you want, but here’s how I see it. You can’t complain and complain about Obamacare and socialized medicine and yet continue to watch the cost of healthcare going up and up and up. At some point, and we may be there now, people just won’t put up with it any more. And then you’re doing to get more and more of what you don’t want — true socialized medicine. I’m not at all suggesting that this would necessarily be better (or worse) then the current system. But it will come. At some point, patients aren’t just going to roll over and die because they can’t get life saving health care that doesn’t bankrupt them.

  • sparklingsoul

    I’ve been in pharmaceutical sales for 10 years. Big Pharma manages to waste unbelievable amounts of money marketing drugs. It would make doctors and patients sick to know how much we spend and waste.

    My first few years in the job, I had an unlimited entertainment budget, so I spent $10,000 a month on speaker programs, dinners, and lunches (multiply this by a 6,000-person salesforce). We have lavish national sales meetings (6,000 reps go to Las Vegas for a week), throw out tons of marketing materials, and overstock sample closets so that samples wind up expiring. We are forced to do expensive dinner speaker programs (speakers get $1,500-$2,000 per presentation) despite being unable to get more than a few healthcare providers to attend.

    Big Pharma is so corrupt that they are unfazed by huge financial penalties and class-action lawsuit losses (I received 1.25 years’ salary from my last company’s class-action lawsuits). Guess who is paying for these penalties and settlements?

    • http://twitter.com/Mad_Scientist2 Mad_Scientist

      Why the hell should I care if a drug company pays for expensive lunches for its sales reps. Seriously.

  • sparklingsoul

    I’ve been in pharmaceutical sales for 10 years. Big Pharma manages to waste unbelievable amounts of money marketing drugs. It would make doctors and patients sick to know how much we spend and waste.

    My first few years in the job, I had an unlimited entertainment budget, so I spent $10,000 a month on speaker programs, dinners, and lunches (multiply this by a 6,000-person salesforce). We have lavish national sales meetings (6,000 reps go to Las Vegas for a week), throw out tons of marketing materials, and overstock sample closets so that samples wind up expiring. We are forced to do expensive dinner speaker programs (speakers get $1,500-$2,000 per presentation) despite being unable to get more than a few healthcare providers to attend.

    Big Pharma is so corrupt that they are unfazed by huge financial penalties and class-action lawsuit losses (I received 1.25 years’ salary from my last company’s class-action lawsuits). Guess who is paying for these penalties and settlements?

  • sparklingsoul

    I’ve been in pharmaceutical sales for 10 years. Big Pharma manages to waste unbelievable amounts of money marketing drugs. It would make doctors and patients sick to know how much we spend and waste.

    My first few years in the job, I had an unlimited entertainment budget, so I spent $10,000 a month on speaker programs, dinners, and lunches (multiply this by a 6,000-person salesforce). We have lavish national sales meetings (6,000 reps go to Las Vegas for a week), throw out tons of marketing materials, and overstock sample closets so that samples wind up expiring. We are forced to do expensive dinner speaker programs (speakers get $1,500-$2,000 per presentation) despite being unable to get more than a few healthcare providers to attend.

    Big Pharma is so corrupt that they are unfazed by huge financial penalties and class-action lawsuit losses (I received 1.25 years’ salary from my last company’s class-action lawsuits). Guess who is paying for these penalties and settlements?

    • drd

      well that is an honest answer! right from the horses mouth!

    • Degrasse1926

      So you didn’t have to spend $10K/month but you did even though you were ethically opposed to it? And you continue to work in a industry that clashes with your ethics? Maybe you should take a look in the mirror to see who’s corrupt.

      • sparklingsoul

        You think I enjoyed working two nights a week for 10 years? That is was MY choice to spend all this money? Think again, Mr. Self-Righteous.
        In pharmaceutical sales, every month your manager spends the day riding with you in your car and going with you to see your doctors. Then he puts pressure on you to do more programs, spend more money, do more activities, etc. If you don’t comply, you get put on a PIP (performance improvement plan) where your manager harasses and bullies you until you file an HR report for emotional stress and go out on disability. Big pharma is like the military–you have no choice but to follow orders.
        However, I have never participated in any unethical sales or marketing practices. If I felt my company was forcing me to do this, I would have blown the whistle.

        I’ve already been forced to change careers twice, due to the dot-com bust and other economic disasters that destroyed my previous careers.

        I’ve never been wealthy enough to be able to just walk away from a job, so lucky for you that you have that option and can be so judgemental. I still have to pay my bills, like everyone else.

        I’m trying to educate the public about what really goes on in pharmaceutical companies. Save your judgements for the C-level people who run the pharmaceutical companies, rather than for the powerless ones at the bottom of the food chain.

        • PharmGirl

          I’m just curious–I know that marketing/sales in the US for drugs has changed a lot in the last few years. I am a pharmacist, and work “on the dark side” at a large pharma company. Have you found that the excessive nature has been reigned in a little? When I worked in a hospital, we were no longer allowed to get large lunches brought in, or even accept pens and notepads from our reps. That’s not to say that sales meetings aren’t still insane, but I am hoping that they are at least a little better? No more Hawaiian vacations and week-long parties?

          • sparklingsoul

            Major excess, such as Hawaiian vacations and week-long parties, are long gone from pharma. I’m in contract sales now, so I have no budget. But a friend of mine at a small pharma company is still forced to do a lot of speaker programs and lunches, so she is still spending a lot. She still buys large lunches at hospitals, too. Two years ago I was buying lunches at hospitals for 40 people a few times a month.

          • sparklingsoul

            P.S. I just had a phone interview with a pharma company that is looking for a rep who is willing to do two dinner-speaker programs a week! Heavy spending is still going on.

    • NormRx

      I was in pharmaceutical sales for 27 years and I never knew of any rep that had a budget of $10,000/month, I had $10,000/year. Most of which was spent on lunches and a few dinner programs. If you had $120,000/year to spend and your company had 6,000reps you must have worked for Pfizer.

  • ParkadamUnited

    Sure, big pharma spends money to promote, Its a business like any other. Whether its a waste or not..well, that’s opinion. Other companies take thier customers out to dinner too! So I think that sales rep is pretty stupid.
    What is unethical, is when someone posts that drugs should not be taken. Someone below, one should not take statins or one that drugs for RA are killing people? Are they. The evidence doesn’t say so and no Dr. would give a medicine that would kill someone. Its more harmful to suggest not to take medication when it is indicated. No drug is safe. No drug will ever be safe. But when the risks and benefits are weighed right, there can be benefit as statins have shown.
    Pharma like any other business has its issues and it has evolved. yes, there are business poeple making business decisions, but the general public fails to understand that working to deliver those medicines are company employees who hold MD, PhD, and PharmD degrees and collaborators hail from some universities such as Harvard, Yale etc. Medical Schools. Pharma doesn’t deliver medicines on its own, it does work wiht the worlds leading experts who are the drivers and developers of clinical protocols. So are the world’s leading Clinical Scientist looking to kill people? Also, do they do it for free? why should they. When I was in research the US government funding my work and my comfortable salary and my trips to congresses to present my work. What the public also doesnt get is alot of payments to physicians..often,.does not go in the physicians pocket!!! It goes to the university via the physican for research. Some keep it, most experts..put it back to fund their lab. So, the sure, pharma has it issues, like any other business, but there is good!

    • Degrasse1926

      Finally a voice of reason. Without private investment in Univ research where would the money come from? The public? Do you want higher taxes to pay for medical research?

      • guest2

        We already do pay for medical research. The government pays for 33% of it according to JAMA. Private industry accounts for 58%. And these numbers are after the federal government cut down on it’s research spending.

        As I recall, part of the deal of pharma agreeing to the generic legislation in the Hatch-Waxman Act was that they’d be able to take advantage of federal funding being used to fund university research. I mean, because it’s a public university in the first place means that it’s already getting direct government support.

        Anyways, I believe the idea was that government would fund the research into new medication and pharma would take the most promising research and nurse it through the FDA via clinical trials.

        So Pharma has benefited immensely from government money already. And in exchange we get generics after x number of years. It’s been a long time since I’ve read up on this so ymmv.

        Here’s a current quote from the Washington Post though:

        “Years ago, the government funded a larger share of such experiments. But
        since about the mid-1980s, research funding by pharmaceutical firms has
        exceeded what the National Institutes of Health spends. Last year, the
        industry spent $39 billion on research in the United States while NIH
        spent $31 billion.”

  • Degrasse1926

    Maybe we should investigate the higher education system since hardly a person on this blog understands capitalism or what it means to be a private entity.

  • Degrasse1926

    Then who is more dumb? The FDA or URL Pharma?

    • ninguem

      What difference does that make? They’re both reprehensible.

  • http://www.facebook.com/morris.talley Morris Talley

    The extreme leftest agenda must always define out society in terms of those that are rich,greedy,obscene in seeking profits that are crushing the victims, regardless of how one acheives the victim status, unfairly taking away that which should be theirs, just for the asking or the taking by a benelovent federal government. But alas, this agenda alwys fails when all of the wealth of the rich is wasted in government freebies, Bernake cant buy anymore of our debt and the whole systems collapses on its own corruption. Oh happy days, we are all equally poor.

    • Tommy Beau

      @facebook-100002072912712:disqus

      Huh? Is there a point to this rant, or is this just the wail of a spoiled child whose mommy took his toy away?

  • drjoekosterich

    There is nothing wring with making a profit. We all need to make money or else we dont eat. The issue is whether it is done honestly or not. The problem I have with big pharma is no profits but ghost writing, suppression of negative trials and the money spent on lobbying and advertising. ($27 billion in 2011!!)

    • Tommy Beau

      And blocking cheaper versions, legally produced and registered from being sold by using all means at their disposal.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emery.max Emery Max

    Avandia- GSK broke NEJM confidentiality, intimidated researchers and writers, created confounding studies, and other criminal activities that resulted some of the largest fines in US history.
    Read the Senate Executive summary here
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/78300319/Avandia-Senate-Report-Exec-Summary-2

    The intimidation of John Buse
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=intimidation%20of%20john%20buse&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.finance.senate.gov%2Fnewsroom%2Fchairman%2Fdownload%2F%3Fid%3D883e903d-f973-4a74-8432-3c651c71b4b4&ei=wDJAUYLNC4OzqQHe1IH4BA&usg=AFQjCNFLgSVaJa0Vou8M3YVaI9IToLIY-g&bvm=bv.43287494,d.aWM

  • rph

    I agree with your thesis, but you lose me after that. The problem with drug companies making money is that they aren’t paid directly by the “consumer”. When you voluntarily purchase a product with full knowledge of and consent to the price, I can support that. The problem is when third party payers enter the equation. They (in most cases) are paying for the “product” for the end user, and have profit incentives all their own. When you have both the drug manufacturer and the payer with profit incentives, where is their money coming from? Inflated healthcare costs. Not to hijack the conversation or distract from the drug companies, but very few patients would pay the full cost of their current drug regimens. If they refused, costs would have to come down. I know “innovation” would decrease as well, but how many truly novel drugs have come out in the past decade that have made a significant improvement in quality of life or mortality? Most of those novel drugs have been drugs for use in an inpatient setting, where you really can’t make a “blockbuster” drug. I digressed. The point is that the current structure of the healthcare system has too many unnecessary parties creating opportunity for profit and not adding value, and they need to be cut out.

  • katerinahurd

    Do you think that M.D.s know what to ask the drug rep? Do you think that because they don’t suffer any physical or psychological harm that they indulge the promotion of sample pharmaceutical to their patients? How many times do the M.D.s think about the true cost of collecting money from the big pharma manufacturers?

  • http://www.facebook.com/sanjay.nair3 Sanjay Nair

    That’s a valid argument Michael provided the off label indications discussed are supported by large scale clinical trials and research. Otherwise it will lead to a situation where drugs are experimented inside the clinic based on overboard promotion by Pharma companies, hunch feelings and hearsay.

  • Tommy Beau

    “The is nothing evil about making money.”

    What a stupid title! It is not about making money, but how you make the money that is evil, illegal or unethical as the case may be.

    Having worked in healthcare, and in pharma and in research it is true that innovative new medicines are brought into being by pharma companies. However it is equally true that big pharma relentlessly pushes the sales of these expensive, patented drugs even when they offer little or no benefit over the much cheaper generic ones.

    In the process, they drive up healthcare costs, compromise the ethics of physicians, and prey upon the most vulnerable in society (i.e., sick patients).

  • Pink Rose

    You’re right, there’s nothing wrong with making money. But there’s a LOT wrong with making money if you have to falsify scientific data to do it.

  • D S

    I’ve been in pharma 20 years. I’m calling b-ll cr-p on sparkling soul’s post. Troll.

    Never have I known a rep to be allotted $10K a month to spend on programs. Perhaps that was Pfizer / Amgen / Genentech et al back in 1993, the glory days of pharma and that was far from being industry wide.

    At the time of a drug launch you will get additional funds for promotional efforts but not $10k a month for one person. Maybe $10K for a POD of 3 people.

    Yes, I’ve been to a national meeting in Vegas. Before pharma I was a meeting planner. Do you know how cheap it is to plan a national meeting in Vegas? Very cheap, comparatively so to cities like Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, etc. Lots of companies have national meetings and pharma is no different.

    Around 2003 Phrma Code was introduced and budgets for programs went into the toilet. The changes were sweeping and many companies knowing the changes were coming, started making changes PRIOR to 2003.

    There are now limits on how much money you can spend per person on lunch vs dinner. Sign in sheets for attendees. Audits are conducted, restrictions on the invitation design, continuing education programs, etc. I’m not complaining because I was relieved, just stating the truth.

    And yes, a hospital or large office may require you to feed 40 for if you want to speak to the docs, but since the budgets are paltry, reps are bringing in pizza not cracked crab. So what’s pizza and salad for 40 – $120? I hardly call that big spending. Most of the time 8-10 ppl are being fed.

    I’m no shrill for big pharma but tell the truth and don’t exaggerate. Pharma’s on the hook for a lot of evil, and we can convict them on the evil they do, not the evil they don’t do.

    Also one is never forced to do anything. Integrity should force one to live their values. If you don’t have any, then stop with the excuses and cash that healthy paycheck that you traded for your integrity. Ugh.

  • Sinjin

    Disgraceful article…as a physician you are advocating the prescription of worthless products gift wrapped to provide the highest return for the manufacturer and what you believe is clinical utility. The majority or prescriptions are unnecessary and harmful, go look it up. Shame on you for writing this!

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