Why social media may not be worth it for doctors

Social media in healthcare is all the rage these days. You can’t visit even one physician-oriented website without someone breathlessly advising you to be on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube and now Pinterest. Yet the only reason these talking heads can give you is, “because they are really popular and everyone is doing it.”

Social media consulting is a bubble economy at the moment.

Don’t listen to them.

1. There is no return on investment (ROI)

If you are a clinician who is paid by your patient’s insurance company for the services you provide, I challenge any social media consultant to show you how a Facebook post or Twitter tweet produces any additional income for you. Remember, no one pays you to login and post on Facebook. You would have to be posting something that actually causes more patients to come into the office where you can see them and charge for your services.

Before you do anything on social media, I encourage you to understand exactly how you generate a return on that investment of time and energy.

2. It’s just one more thing to burn you out

With studies consistently showing 1 in 3 doctors burned out on any given office day, adding the learning curve of just one of these social media sites could be the last straw in your workload. And the social media consultants never recommend you do just one. They always recommend a “strategy” and list the sites in groups of three and four as I have above.

I can tell you from direct experience that each site has its own learning curve, technology and culture. Facebook is very different from Twitter or Pinterest, and any one of them can be overwhelming to an already busy physician.

If you are bordering on overworked — like most docs I know — and you get a spare hour in your schedule, my suggestion is you go have a nice lunch with your significant other (or your kids) and leave Twitter to Ashton Kutcher.

3. It’s a fad, it’s a bubble, it’s not worth it … unless one of these apply

a) One situation where social media outreach might be worthwhile is if your practice (or a significant portion of it) consists of products or services the client pays cash for. In this instance, your Facebook post of a special offer might just drive more clients and dollars in the door. This is exactly how a restaurant uses Twitter and why social media makes a lot more sense for a restaurateur than an MD.

b) You have a lot of spare time and don’t care about money. In other words, it is a hobby.

If you are the typical doctor in the typical medical practice, there is no business case for social media, there is no ROI, and the additional workload and expectations could worsen the amount of stress you are under. That’s three strikes by my reckoning.

So the next time a “guru” of social media tells you the five sites you should be on (and there will be two more in the next 18 months, I guarantee it), you can say, “Thanks, but no thanks,” and get back to taking good care of your patients and spending time with your family instead.

Dike Drummond is a family physician and provides burnout prevention and treatment services for healthcare professionals at his site, The Happy MD.

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  • southerndoc1

    Excellent post.

    • Fard Johnmar

       Dr. Drummond:

      Thanks for your provocative and interesting post.  I agree that physicians shouldn’t feel pressured to engage in social media — especially if they are not interested or don’t have time. However, there are significant trends happening in the digital/sociail space that will have a big impact on physicians, which is an argument for why they should at least become familiar with these tools (and why people are using them) — even if they don’t engage with them personally.  I’ve put together a brief presentation focusing on some of these trends which you can view here: http://pbeye.info/5D0.

      Thanks for launching a great discussion.

  • http://onhealthtech.blogspot.com Margalit Gur-Arie

    Well said, Dr. Drummond! Very well said!!

    I would like to add a slight caveat though. If you are one of the many frustrated docs out there, it may be quite therapeutic to start a blog and release some steam (you can do it anonymously, of course). Probably won’t make any difference and won’t change anything, but you may feel better if you “put it in writing”, and once in a while someone may feel better when reading your thoughts and might even leave you an encouraging comment or two. Who knows, Kevin may even find you and post your stuff here for all of us to enjoy :-)

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       For some docs blogging is therapeutic and that may be the ROI they are looking for. I just wonder if you have that spare hour in the week what use you might put it to for the MOST therapeutic value. A nap, work out, meditate, an hour with your kids or your spouse. Social media is one of a long list of options in that case,

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

      • Happydaysdoc

        Dike you are right and thank you for sticking to your guns. As a PCP I struggle to see 17-25 patients a day and complete all the ridiculous paperwork from insurance companies and my own EMR. My office turns down 6-10 requests for new patients to establish with me daily because my practice is so full. I am not on Facebook (huge waste of time), anonymous on Twitter (love that concept), and Kevin MD is the only blog I read because it speaks to me. I have learned about issues important to patients and how to relate better to my patients from this blog and all the “extra” time I have I give to my family. It is still not enough and these business types just don’t get it. I can’t remember the last time I had a “lunch hour” because I work furiously to complete all the crap that is thrown at primary care from a variety of sources on a daily basis and until they walk a day in our shoes, they will never know. Just know you are right, my colleagues know you are right, and leave all the social media to those with time to waste.

        • http://www.kevinmd.com kevinmd

          “KevinMD is the only blog I read because it speaks to me. I have learned about issues important to patients and how to relate better to my patients from this blog.”

          Thanks for saying that. That is the crux of what I try to do here, which is try and have doctors and patients understand each other’s position.

          Best,
          Kevin

      • Pinelopi3

        Dr Drummond,
        i would like to ask something….
        In my country (Greece) the health care system is a bit different than yours. The cost for every patient is paid by insurance companies or Public Sector or/and in many cases by the patient itself. Do you believe that in this type of system Social Media would worth in terms of ROI?

        • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

           Hello Pinelopi3,

          If you take away any economic incentive to blog or tweet, then it depends on what is the highest and best use of your time. I work with stressed and burned out doctors – which is 1/3 of physicians worldwide on any given day – so I always look at the  tradeoff between spending time on social media vs. with your spouse, significant other, family or on your own self care.

          In my view … if you are tired or like you haven’t spent enough time with your family ( or THEY feel that way when asked ) your better investment of the spare time you do have is on those activities and not social media.

          Dike
          Dike Drummond MD
          http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/DrTolbert Gerry L Tolbert

    For those of us who grew up with a computer in our home from a young age, or at least exposure to the medium before age 5 (and mind you that’s a lot of us, now) these activities are more an extension of what we’re doing anyway. I agree that the ROI is small for most physicians, but honestly, if everything is looked at in terms of ROI, you’re probably not having a lot of fun to begin with.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Hey Gerry … with 1/3 of doctors suffering from Burnout every day worldwide and regardless of specialty … there are quite a few “fun challenged” physicians out there. I wrote this article for those who have been feeling pressure that they “should” be on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn (now Pinterest as well) … when what is really being called for is more balanced time away from medicine.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/rafdelag Rafael De la Garza-R

    I disagree.

    I find this post a bit contradictory, because Dr Drummond is utilizing a blog, having Dr Pho post it via twitter and have it read by medical students or doctors subscribed to a blog or subscribed to twitter. And then his personal opinion on social media is “don’t listen to them”

    Personal and professional success nowadays is all about the capacity to adapt. Social networks are part of people’s lives, whether we like it or not. It is inevitable.

    This forms of communication allows not only for doctor-patient
    interaction, but for doctor-doctor, doctor-student interaction, which is
    the key point here. The ability these services provide to expand and
    nourish your professional network is an invaluable asset that was
    unavailable years ago. There is ROI, which is the expansion of your
    contacts, the availability of information, and the opportunity to stay
    updated. ROI is not just about money.

    I suggest the book  “The Start-Up of You” for additional insights on the
    importance on building and working on your professional network.

    I am a medical student and I suggest you do take the time to learn at
    least 1 of these services. Do it for yourself. It is incredible how fast
    you can access medical journal information, case information, research
    information, etc if you are in contact with medical colleagues all over
    the world.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Hey Rafael,

      I don’t practice medicine any more. In my business, i can show you a linear relationship between my blogging and social media activities and my income. That is what is missing in the social medial hype for practicing doctors. For the average over stressed doctor who makes a living from insurance payments … I have yet to see an ROI from social media.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

      • http://twitter.com/rafdelag Rafael De la Garza-R

         Thanks for the reply Dr Drummond!

        How about thinking of ROI not only as money, but as simply knowledge, professional connections, feedback from colleagues, etc… do you think it could be worth it?

        • southerndoc1

           ”simply knowledge, professional connections, feedback from colleagues, etc”
          I have a good amount of those in my professional life already. If I were to devote more times to them, it would be taken away either from my patients or my family.

          Sorry, not interested.

        • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

           It could be Rafael … and let me ask you this. On  your death bed, is the one regret you will have that you should you never got the Viral Tweet you always yearned for.  There’s a reality check for you.

          For most doctors what you are talking about is the returns of
          - knowledge (which they already have way more than enough of),
          - connections (which most of them don’t need more of)
          - and colleague feedback (which they can ask for in the form of a consultation if they really want it)
          versus spending more time with their family. That is the #1 regret on most people’s death bed. That they did not spend enough time with the people they love the most.

          Honest … this is a brutal tradeoff.
          Your Life / your family / your health
          OR
          Social Media
          Because most doctors don’t have the bandwidth for BOTH.

          … and there is no room for “should” in the reasoning. Doctors are stressed out in massive numbers. Don’t do things that don’t make your life better. The most important thing is to get as much time as possible away from medicine with what every recharges your batteries and builds your relationships with the people who are most important in your life.

          Dike
          Dike Drummond MD
          http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/ogradylaura Laura O’Grady

    One purpose of physicians using social media is in order to gain a better understanding of the patient’s experience living with an illness. There is much that can be learned from the narratives that patients provide online. For example, many patients will not reveal to their physician that they are having trouble taking their medication because they don’t want a lecture. Patients who participate in social media often learn “tricks of the trade” from others patients that help them with this issue. If a physician knows about this experiential information they can tell the patient BEFORE they start taking the medication. 

    I believe one of the goals of social media is collaboration. Many patients are already collaborating with each other. If physicians would participate this will improve clinical outcomes. But it will take time. Please see the article (citation below) Alex Jadad and I wrote that outlines this concept and provides an example of how it can be used in practice.

    O’Grady, L. & Jadad, A. (2010). Shifting from shared to collaborative decision making: a change in thinking and doing, Journal of Participatory Medicine. http://ogrdy.ca/qzTIFR

  • southerndoc1

    I guess it’s correct to assume that you’re willing to pay your physicians at a rate comparable to standard office visits for time spent collaborating with you via social media?

    Or do you expect them to do this for free while at the dinner table, at their daughter’s piano recital, or at church on Sunday morning?

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

     Hello Laura,

    I appreciate your heartfelt, thorough and intelligent analysis. And in the real world where studies show 1/3 of doctors burned out on any given office day – worldwide regardless of specialty, and no one gets paid to blog, tweet or update … what social media adds up to is an additional burden that can tip an individual physician over the edge.

    The very last thing a stressed out doctor “Should” do is take time away from their own health and family to pour it into social media IMHO … unless there is a way that makes money in their business model and it actually can get them out of the office sooner.

    I still have not seen an example of the typical doctor who is paid 100% by insurance making more money with social media. If anyone has such a thing … please drop it in a comment here.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

    • http://twitter.com/ogradylaura Laura O’Grady

      If we can (eventually) show that using social media will improve patient outcomes and, in turn, save money there may be a way to allow physicians to be paid for their time using this mechanism. It will take some time and a large-scale restructuring but I think it is possible. I believe in Canada a physician call bill for answering an email.

      As a professor I was provided a salary and could not charge by the “email”. There was also no way to for me to control how many emails I received that required a response. So I understand where you are coming from regarding payment for your time and expertise, which like you I spent many years acquiring.

      I do strongly believe we can improve in ways unprecedented ways by leveraging the power of technology. It may require that we change how medicine is practiced and implement this during medical school (where the current and upcoming generations are already “wired:) in order for physicians to find ways to integrate social media in a meaningful, productive and time-saving way.  

      • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

         Laura,

        That is a noble quest AND yet to be proven. All the while, whatever “system” develops will be overseen by humans for the benefit of humans. Right now the average medical workplace setting is toxic to the humans that staff it.

        Perhaps LESS human interaction and more digital contact is part of the solution. However, I am old enough to hope (deep down inside in the hopeless romantic side of me) that MORE touch and caring and thought and intention and one-on-one human interaction are what is needed. NOT less.

        Dike
        Dike Drummond MD
        http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/SixfoldMedia Sixfold Media

    You make some good points, but according to the “Most Emailed” stories on FierceHealth today, ‘patients choose hospitals based on social media’. It may not be for everyone, but there is a clear ROI for some providers.  http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/patients-choose-hospitals-based-social-media/2012-04-19

  • http://twitter.com/MattKLangan Matt Langan

    I respectfully disagree. Social media is where a doctor’s prospective and existing patients are spending hours of their time away from the office researching their condition(s), sharing their experiences, logging their progress, complaining about the care they receive, finding their doctors, etc. The opportunity cost of not having a strong online presence is significant these days and will only continue to increase in significance as the world becomes more technologically inclined and search engines assign more weight to the social ranking of a site.

    The idea that social media is a passing fad is false. Perhaps the networks that are the most popular among the social sites will shift slightly, but it certainly won’t occur overnight. Each of the websites you cited have hundreds of millions of active daily users investing hours of their time each day to build strong social profiles of their own, which means they will be increasingly less likely to jump elsewhere. The idea of the internet becoming less social and more silo-ed/static would negatively impact the speed in which people can collaborate, news could be disseminated and the transparency of information.I do enjoy the alternative perspective, but think you are seriously mistaken if you don’t see the value in social media for anyone – including a physician, who is essentially a service provider participating in a small business.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Matt … thanks for the great comment AND show me the ROI for a physician who is 100% paid by their patient’s insurance.

      I understand the statistics about the utilization of social media. AND patients go to the docs who are covered by their insurance. Docs simply can’t spend hours online building a “strong social profile” if it doesn’t pay them in some way. 1/3 are already burned out and – trust me on this – their health and their families are suffering already. If there is no measurable return … it makes no sense … even if facebook membership crosses a billion people.

      Social Media is not a fad. Healthcare social media consulting telling EVERY doctor they MUST be online on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, Pinterest, Quora and the rest is a fad IMHO … until such time as they can show an ROI for the physician paid by insurance.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

      • http://twitter.com/MattKLangan Matt Langan

        Dr. Drummund,

        In the case of social media, it is often difficult to quantify the ROI because it can be a challenge for many to measure the number and quality of impressions their content has received and directly connect that with a particular sale or appointment. Just because something is difficult to measure doesn’t mean that it’s not generating significant results for them and their practice.

        Furthermore, your argument depends on how you define, “ROI.” ROI can take many forms, whether it’s an increase in revenues or a decrease in redundant tasks (ie saving time). Social media can certainly increase both of these as a result of increasing product and service awareness and answering frequently asked questions, respectively.

        What I can offer you is anecdotal evidence of social media generating ROI, which has been published on my company’s blog and has received a great deal of attention. I invite you and your readers to read and consider the information shared on it before concluding that social media is a waste of time. http://cadencemed.com/blog/2012/01/doctors-social-media-roi-is-real/

  • http://twitter.com/KarenSibertMD Karen Sibert MD

    Respectfully disagreeing as well.  I don’t use social media as a way of augmenting income.  Since I’m an anesthesiologist, my income is the result of patients who need surgery or diagnostic procedures at my hospital, and need my care to come through safely and painlessly.  I don’t get referrals via the Web.  My interest in social media stems from my interest in the future of medicine and the politics of medicine–two things which are inextricably related.  My interest in websites such as HealthTap comes from my feeling that it’s in the best interest of all physicians to provide places where patients can ask questions and get good information.   It’s pro bono work as far as I’m concerned.  But I’d rather patients ask me about anesthesia and get accurate answers than browse on the Internet elsewhere and get emotional, biased, inaccurate answers from someone who isn’t a board-certified anesthesiologist. For the record, I blog at apennedpoint.com

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Sounds great Karen … and since your social media activities don’t drive your income or save you time in the office — and you are aware of that — … I have a couple of questions for you.

      How satisfied are you with the balance in your life on a 1-10 scale?
      If I were to ask your significant other or children how satisfied they are with the amount of time they get to spend with you … what would they say?

      If if you have ANY dissatisfaction with your answers to the above … my suggestion is that the time you are spending on blogging and social media is time you could spend elsewhere to better effect and create an immediate improvement in your quality of life.

      If you are blogging and social media-ing AND you and your family are a 10 out of 10 … then you are in the 1% and have a consulting business in the making.

      This is my point. If you are a stressed out doctor (one in three are) and if there is no ROI on your social media in terms of time saved or money made in the office then there is a better use of your time for you and your family. Please don’t listen to a social media consultant tell you that you “should” be on five different social media sites if that is not true in your life.

      If there is a better use of your time and no ROI for social media … then don’t listen to the hype.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.marketingsavant.com/ danavan

    I feel a bit out of place commenting here, but as one of the “social media gurus” called out in the article, I guess I have, perhaps, a different perspective on this.

    I noticed in many of Dr. Drummond’s responses below, this mention of 1/3 of doctors suffering from burnout and that’s one of the reasons (perhaps it’s not, but it came up so often that it feels pretty important) for not engaging in social media.  On that point alone, I have to wonder what the real root cause is for said burnout (can’t log in to the JAMA site to read the full set of conclusions) but I don’t believe that “marketing one’s practice” is near the top of the list. (perhaps it is, but that seems unlikely).

    (Speaking of research (referring to the 1/3 burnout study), there are an overwhelming number of studies, by reputable organizations such as McKinsey & Co., Accenture, Forrester, Altimiter Group, and other household names in the marketing industry that point to the strong positive ROI that social media can achieve for a wide variety of business types. Everything from search engine find-ability to new service offerings (derived from social media research) to patient referrals have been attributed to social media in the healthcare space.)

    This article sounds, at least to me, like the same argument “social media gurus” use on unsuspecting prospects to coax them into social media.  They position it as some stand-alone magical thing (it’s not) that will perform miracles for one’s business (or practice, in this case) (it won’t) and divorce it from an overall business and marketing strategy. (it’s but a mere set of channels, from one point of view).  Social media, from the perspective of someone concerned with growing their practice or business, is simply a set of tools that one can use to achieve that end and is a function of marketing.  More to the point, marketing, as a whole, is something that we see enjoying wide use with very positive results by many Dr’s, hospitals, chiropractors, specialty medical groups and others in the healthcare realm.

    That said, social business, which is more than simply an elevated form of social media, is having a real impact on how consumers interact with one another online and has already proven it’s ROI for countless businesses of all types, though that doesn’t mean it’s right for every organization. However, as some of the commenters have pointed out, “the patients are in social media” and by extension, providers of the very health care that they’re conversing about could benefit from “being in the conversation” for the purposes of connecting with patients (prospects), market research, awareness and brand building, and so forth. (with full adherence to HIPAA regulations and so forth)

    Perhaps social media is not right for every Dr. or medical practice. There’s no doubt about that, just as it’s not right for every business.  The same can be said for the multiples of marketing channels and tactics available to help build one’s business.  Many Dr’s still feel (at least many that we talk to) that TV advertising is simply not for medical professionals (we’ve been told that “only bad doctors resort to TV), yet we see all of the hospital systems in our area, many other healthcare providers and countless specialists and allied health professionalism like dentists advertising on TV with great positive effects.  Perhaps that article could have been written about TV?  A Dr. shouldn’t have to add shooting numerous takes of a TV commercial to his/her already high stress level. 

    At the end of the day, the decision to use social media should not be predicated on being coaxed into the medium by a social media guru, book or any other source but rather guided by a strategic need to grow one’s practice, brand, better understand patient communities or any one of the many objectives that social media can help achieve.  If none of those needs exist (practice is over-booked, doctors are already burned out, etc.) then marketing, and by extension, social media, isn’t something that I, or any self-respecting consultant would recommend.  ”If it ain’t broke, don’t break it,” so to speak.

    Finally, when a healthcare client (we have several) calls wanting to engage in social media, we apply the same tests of strategy (and sanity) to their business as we do all others.  We work from the level of business strategy, to marketing objectives and finally down to social media execution (if it’s deemed appropriate for the clients’ unique needs) to ensure the best opportunity for success.  For what it’s worth, we have yet to hear of any medical practice that we’ve worked with or spoken with where social media was deemed a complete waste of time holding no ROI for the practice and contributing to the burnout of anyone on the staff, let alone the Dr.

    • southerndoc1

      If we’re willing to admit that social media is just advertising, that’s fine. I don’t need advertising, so I don’t need social media.

      But let’s not claim that social media are going to do anything more significant such as make people healthier until we have some data.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Hey danavan,

      Thanks for your well thought out comment. Since you tie your social media promotion to a solid business plan … you are NOT one of the “gurus” I am calling out.

      Reality check for you: 1/3 of doctors are burned out. It is not one study. It is dozens of them over the last 20 years all around the world in all specialties. And OF COURSE it is not because of their marketing activities. The majority play no role in marketing activities of any kind.

      It is because they are overwhelmed with an inhuman amount of work, responsibility and caring. The doctors are tapped out. There is no available bandwidth. And now there is a solid wall of promotion from literally thousands of social media consultants who don’t understand or care about the doctors business model … but for $500 they will “set you up” with a gorgeous facebook fan page, twitter account …etc, etc. And tell the doctor they “Should” be on on these sites because … basically … that’s where your patients are.

      What I am saying is this. If your most precious commodity is time. If your business model is one where social media provides no ROI. Then don’t do it. Even an hour of time in a whole week is a huge luxury for many doctors … and form most … there are higher and better uses of that time.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

    Hey Matt,

    If you can’t track a client appointment or product or service sale to an online lead generating activity … then you have very low quality systems in your business and you could be wasting a huge amount of time and effort and never know it. This is not unusual for doctors … they aren’t business experts or work flow gurus or marketers by any means. My suggestion as a business coach is that you set up systems to track sales to social media … ASAP and stop guessing.

    Show me how social media saves time. If you have an FAQ page on your website that saves time by answering those FAQ’s … that’s not social media. If you answer questions online and it saves a patient visit … and that patient visit is how you make money … you have just LOST MONEY through social media.

    You have one sentence testimonials on social media on your site. Unless they provide information about business model they don’t contribute to this discussion. I am talking about the average doctor who derives 100% of their income from insurance. Show me the ROI on the time and energy invested in Social Media in that setting. We both agree that a doctor with a popular product or service that is paid for with cash (there are thousands of them) can drive sales with social media … just like a restaurant can.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

     Sixfold,

    If I had written an article about HOSPITALS using social media I would have pointed out that it is a productive marketing tool that should be a core part of their marketing plan.

    Of course social media is an effective tool. Show me an ROI for the doctor who is paid 100% by insurance … no one has yet. AND I am willing and eager to see a case study.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

      Sixfold,

      One more thing – and it is a Pet Peeve … so bear with me here.

      In the age of social media … when cat photos go viral … I don’t measure the value of the information in a social media post by its popularity. I would suggest that you don’t either.

      In my opinion, there is a LOT of trash out there. If you don’t see meaningful information presented in an actionable fashion … it might as well be another cat picture on BuzzFeed.com.

      My two cents,

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

    This is a great comment string … thank you to everyone who has participated.

    Here is my request. If anyone knows of a physician who is in a typical practice where they are paid 100% of their income from insurance reimbursement (and cash for the patients who have no insurance) … where they can show a measurable Return On Investment for social media. PLEASE put it in the comments here.

    I am talking about
    1) What you spent on setup, training and maintenance of your social media presence – and value the doctors tweeting time at the same hourly rate they would make if they were seeing patients
    2) What business came in because of that
    3) Your profit or loss

    It is up you to track these things. The social media consultants are only concerned that your Facebook page LOOKS great. It is up to you to prove that it makes business sense and that the time you spend on social media is more important than spending it with your kids.

    If you have that case study … please share.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

    • http://twitter.com/dreapadoirtas Domhnall Brannigan

      I must say it saddens me that so many of these comments for and against social media in health care cite the financial benefits or otherwise as reasons to use/not use SoMe. My take is that the immeasurable benefits to ME have been in keeping up to date, sharing ideas, talking to experts and learning from the clinical experience of others. 
      If your bottom line is cash, or ROI as you put it, then sure, SoMe may not return much. Yet. But is this the only measure worth using? And how can SoMe really CAUSE burnout? That seems a stretch! If your only motivation for using SoMe is business/money oriented, burnout may be an issue, but frankly, that is a selfish and narrow view. Just my tuppence. 
      Feel free to visit one of my blogs and have a look at a presentation on SoMe for Luddiots (in which there is no discussion of financial benefits/harms to the physician) starting with this post: http://dreapadoir.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/at-the-risk-of-becoming-a-one-trick-pony/

  • buzzkillersmith

    Well, this is one new one on me.  There are docs who think that fooling around with social media is a money-maker?!?  Funny who’ll they’ll let into med school these days. 
    If you want to make money, get back in the exam room and see that pt (or better yet, get back into the reading room and read that MRI).  Social media is here for fun, not profit.

    • MrDocq

      Hey, pal ! Did you lost “fun” in your usual put-the-pedal-to-the-metal-beer-parties-community blogs and gave doctor’s forum a try? Better go back to “fool around” on…

  • WesMorris

    As a “HIPAA Guy” (Privacy and Security in some small and large systems for the past 9 years) I shudder when an individual provider wants to use social media. From patients abusing the relationship to practitioner breaches of privacy, I question the value of forming a 1-1 or 1- many relationship through social media.  I’ve seen too many cases of bad outcomes (and investigated more than my share), and often times they have led to terminations, fines, and impaired relationships/reputations.  A system that uses social media as an advertising mechanism is fine, but the rules about individual use must be clear.  A quick search of recent news reports will bear out my concerns.    

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Agreed Wes … boundaries are even more important when all the world can see. Doctors aren’t necessarily good at them to begin with … that is one more subject that didn’t make the course catalog in medical school and residency. Here in the age of facebook there are all sorts of ways to get in trouble that have never existed before … just ask Anthony Wiener !

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/TWOGR8DANES1 TWOGR8DANES

    In the context of a pop-culture definition of social media, I believe Dr. Drummond makes some fair points.  I would also concur that the same consumers/patients that misspell words in an email are the same people who are going to Tweet or Post to their Wall some bit of sensitive medical information and then whose fault is that – the Physician/Healthcare Provider for supplying, or the consumer for mindlessly posting?

    I would say the term “social media” gets diluted to mean all things Twitter/Facebook/Pintrest/Google+.  But to those of us in the business world it also refers to purposeful collaboration.  It is the ability for co-workers to collaborate on the fly or over time to solve a problem.  After all, aren’t all the healthcare professionals that touch me as a patient all co-workers regardless of when or where I present to them?  I see the place for social media/collaboration in healthcare as the coordination of a care plan between disparate healthcare providers.  Where each Dr., Nurse, Pharmacist can “Follow” a patient across healthcare systems and specialties.  Where those that “Follow” me have access to previous visits, Labs, Prescriptions, X-rays, diagnoses – regardless of what specialty or health system they are a part of.  I see healthcare professionals collaborating on solving a problem either in the short-term, or over time.  I see “followers” coming and going as their expertise is needed in helping to diagnose and treat me.  And I see that collaboration living on passed just a visit, or a diagnosis, or a hospital stay.

    Having recently experienced 40+ days in the ICU with my wife’s illness, I was always shocked at the fact that nobody was on the same page – On many days I had to be the glue that kept everyone on the same page and reminded them to look at results from past visits.  They were only on the last report, the last test.  Nobody realized that things that were happening had happened the last time she was in the hospital.  It’s like each visit started from scratch.  Collaboration tools would go a long way in eliminating this visit-centric experience that we had.  Each of my wife’s Doctors, Nurses, and Pharmacists cold have “Followed” her as a Patient – across visits and buildings to collaborate on her case and not re-create the wheel.  They could also continue to “Follow” her so that when/if she presents again they are notified and can be ready to collaborate.

    I do appreciate that they biggest challenge to purposeful collaboration between healthcare professionals is the fact that we only have 60% of the healthcare professionals we need to manage our population.  That means Dr’s have too many patients, Nurses have too many Patients, Pharmacists are receiving too many orders…and there is just not enough time in the day to purposefully collaborate on patients.  Add to that the potential of more users flooding the system in the next few years and healthcare will be set back 15 years in it’s ability to keep up, let alone adopt, new technologies.

    The answer is not a simple one, but purposeful collaboration between healthcare providers over time, spanning cradle-to-grave hold out potential for streamlining how we get diagnosed and successfully treated.

    • http://twitter.com/TWOGR8DANES1 TWOGR8DANES

      I make the above comments with an excellent understanding of purposeful collaboration, technology, how healthcare professionals use technology, and how patients benefit – or not – from that technology.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

      Thanks TWOGR8DANES for the thoughtful post.

      There is a whole world of collaborative possibilities out there for tech putting the healthcare team on the same page. And you are correct that this type of tech initiative exists well outside of any facebook or twitter discussion.

      All it takes is a 3 day hospital stay to see how hopelessly uncoordinated most current healthcare systems are. In the situation of a prolonged ICU stay, I think every patient would do best with a full time patient advocate (a trained human being) to help you navigate the system and get the docs to talk with each other.

      This “technology-that-brings-the-team-together” dream is what motivates most EMR initiatives. Unfortunately in our commercial environment … it often ends up with everyone having a different system and none of them talking to each other.

      You could use social media to good advantage by posting about your wife’s experience on the hospitals facebook page. I am not being flip in saying that. It is a viable means of getting their attention these days … since whatever you post is there for all the world to see AND you are making improvement suggestions from real experience.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • Chermack

    While I respect Dr. Drummond’s opinion, the facts say something different. A recent PwC survey reflects the patients view PwC Health Research Institute – Social media “likes” healthcare (http://www.pwc.com/us/en/health-industries/publications/health-care-social-media.jhtml)
    PwC Health Research Institute – Social media “likes” healthcare
     (http://www.pwc.com/us/en/health-industries/publications/health-care-social-media.jhtml)

    We have created a HIPAA compliant Private Social Network as opposed to (Facebook/Twitter etc)to allow healthcare professionals to control such messaging and their community via social media. A social media strategy for healthcare is important to a practice, hospital, or
    group/specialty. Set a Social Media strategy for both your patients and your Brand (Practice) 

  • Seval Gunes

    I agree.
    It is a waste of time and fraught with legal and professional problems.
    If you ever get into an “internet fight” with a real or fake patient you will lose as it is asymmetric warfare and patients can write anything about you and you cannot disclose anything about the patient because of HIPAA. 
    If you are desperate and try to ensnare new patients on social media, then you are probably not a good doctor anyway and you should use your time to become better in your profession.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/6VZNUBBOZ44BFKI357VDKLB3I4 Mike

      Excellent point on online exchanges. Once you go online, anyone is free to comment on your work and reputation but you cannot defend yourself without breaking a HIPAA rule or two. Very lopsided. Not worth it.  

  • http://twitter.com/ClinicalCURRENT Clinical CURRENT

    From a fairly neutral perspective, I’d genuinely be interested to know how many people have come across this article by it being shared via social media? I’d imagine quite a few, so social media in itself not a bad investment – certainly would harm being able to easily share information

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

      Hey ClinicalCURRENT … the traffic on social media is good for many, many things. These days it is even a great way to disseminate information to doctors. And Traffic, Shares, Likes and other measures of popularity are an effective marketing strategy ONLY for certain business models. The practice of medicine in a 100% insurance based payment environment is not one of them.

      I have asked for a case study of a measurable positive ROI on social media for a doctor in the typical practice – paid 100% by insurance – Here, on  Facebook and in 11 doctor groups on LinkedIn. No one has provided one. All anyone talks about is “everyone is on social media”. Traffic and popularity are meaningless. Show me how a doctor can tweet and share and get home from the office earlier that day … and have more money in their pocket — show me the social media magic … and I will become the biggest sharer of that information. Not seen it yet.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

    • http://twitter.com/FinancialBrand The Financial Brand

      Again, B2B vs. B2C. Big difference. Every medical professional on earth is scrambling around the web trying to find out what they are supposed to be doing in social channels because they’ve been brow-beaten by a bunch of self-appointed, so-called “experts.”

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

    Your link just documents what all the “social media consultants” point to … simple markers of activity on social media. That is no reason for an overstressed doctor to waste time there. Where is the ROI. You don’t have anything to show it. Yes there is a huge amount of traffic on social media. Show me how a doctor who is paid 100% by insurance generates a true ROI.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/6VZNUBBOZ44BFKI357VDKLB3I4 Mike

    Excellent post. I am amazed to see doctors excited over social media. I keep asking my partner, where do these folks get the time. Nothing against social media but first give me an app that can increase the number of hours in a day. Till then, it has zero value to me. 

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Hey Mike …

      More hours … hopefully to spend OUTSIDE the office!

      I think doctors like social media in part because it is a lot more fun than seeing patients sometimes.

      How about an app that does your charting by mind control. You think it and it magically appears typed and spell checked in the medical record. HA!

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/joeketch Joe Ketcherside

    I agree, Dr. Drummond. You should not be on social media.

    And by the way, the typical practice is not paid 100% by insurance anywhere. 

    What was your ROI on this post?

    • MrDocq

      Leave your cynicism aside, mister.
      My experience is in exact concurrence with Dr Drummond post. Even long before hysteria of internet social media, I wrote answers to medical questions posted by readers of one well known tabloid, practically for free.  After a couple of years, I felt that many times people were just going after free lunch, me struggling with writing professionally sound, exhaustive and at the same time understandable to laymen answers to many times trivial problems. Although expected by me, impact on my (then) private practice was absolutely zero and even a simple note of gratuity was rare event.
      Fellow doctors: social media: yes, for peer community networking only. Otherwise, really, go and spend the rest of your (statistically short) lifetime in a better way, with your deeply underparented kids.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

      Hey Joe,

      My own business model is one that does show a direct and measurable ROI from social media. If you visit my site … you will see that.

      The burned out doctors I work with are being hyped “you should be on social” media by consultants at a time when an extra hour would best be spent on their own self care and with their families. I understand social media quite well … they don’t. Still looking for a case study showing a legit ROI for an insurance based practice. Do you have one?

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/PathcareNow Pathcare Now

    In my post, “Is there a business case for healthcare in social media?”, I discussed the use of social media in  marketing pharmaceuticals.  We see that the use of social media in pharmaceutical marketing  has regulatory constraints but also value when used for CME.  Let’s get back to the individual physician.  
    The question of ROI is central for anyone, especially a busy, stressed out doctor.
    I agree with Dike, social media is primarily an advertising, lead generation medium.  So let’s shift the discussion from social media to social networking.

    Private social networking for healthcare has 4 business requirements:A private and secure user friendly messaging system which enables the exchange of private messages between doctor and patient without the privacy exposure and time consuming distraction of email and Facebook.

    Make it easy to distribute guidance directly and discreetly to the patient and care givers. Guidance may include information such as medications, treatments, tests, follow ups etc.

    Make it easy for your patient and caregivers to update you with relevant data on a timeline such as: blood pressure, pulse, dizziness, general feeling, appetite, clarity of speech, movement stability as well as classified events such as falling, nausea, blood pressure drops/peaks, medication taken (what, how much, when, who gave) and treatments performed (what, when, who gave).

    Make it easy to identify the differences between what you instructed and what the patient /caregivers actually did. Think of it like balancing your checkbook.This is a profitable business model because it provides benefits on the supply side (you – the doctor) and on the demand side (your patients/caregivers).More on my post http://pathcareblog.com/how-to-build-a-business-case-for-social-media-for-your-practice/Danny

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

    Pathcare Now,

    OK … your comment is irrelevant to our discussion and I will ask you the same question. Show me the ROI on “Private Social Networking”. Looks to me like a lot of communication someone is doing for free. If I have a concierge practice I can see it as part of the service paid for by the premium. Most docs are paid by insurance. Show me how an insurance compensated doc makes money in your system.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

    I still have not been provided with a case study of a doctor who is paid by the patient’s insurance showing a  positive ROI from social media activities. If you have one … please post it here or contact me directly. Thanks,

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com
     

  • http://twitter.com/JBBC Marie Ennis-O’Connor

    Thank you Domhnall for saying just what I was thinking. As a  patient advocate, I cannot tell you how important it is to us to have the support of physicians online. There is much more I could write on this topic but I am tied for time here..hope to return to it later. 

  • http://www.cyberdentist.blogspot.com/ Matrixband

    Insurance payment for 1 patient=x dollars
    Insurance payment for 0 patient=0 dollars

    SM helps get patients in the door.  So as marketing, weigh it against other forms of investment of your time and money like your office decor, signage, or time spent socializing in the community.  Reputation counts and SM helps develop that reputation.

    If a doc is overstressed because he is totally flooded with patients, then lucky for them.

    Doctor in Latin is “Docere” which roughly translates “I teach.”  
    Instilling confidence in the patients (and potential patients) is a real part of healthcare just as much as selecting the right antibiotic.  SM helps establish  in prospective and existing patient’s minds that you not only know what you are talking about, but that you care.

    I agree docs should not do SM if it’s not at least a little fun, otherwise they will stink at it.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

      If you really believe that is true Matrixband … then show me a measurable ROI on social media. Have you talked with a doctor lately. They are overloaded by a thousand things that have not a lot to do with seeing patients … “you should be on social media” is just the latest of them. Doctors are quitting medicine and even killing themselves because of the stresses of their career. One more thing is all in could take to push an individual doctor over the edge.

      Show me the ROI and a case study. Otherwise it is a waste of time that could be spent on self care and recharging their batteries.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • katerinahurd

    Don’t you see the paradox of criticizing social media using social media such as this blog.

    • Haloperidol

      In my opinion, most patients are not particularly interested in their physician’s personal lives, nor do they have much interest in reading a physician blog or fancy website. It’s sad narcissistic injury because we may feel connected with our patients and thus compelled to expand with a social media presence to enhance this experience. Also, most patients do not utilize search engines to pick their doctors. They simply call their insurance company to get in with a PCP or get a referral to see a specialist. I agree with Dr. Drummond. Because of the business model in which medicine is run, there is zero money to be made in social media. Who pays the doctor’s bills? Insurance companies. The entity paying the bills has zero interest in social media. 
      @katerinahurd. I do not see Dr. Drummond criticizing social media. This author chose to educate physicians, which is more than what you’ve done today.

      • katerinahurd

         Would you conider developing a medically oriented web site if it were to be financially rewarded by an insurance company, advertisers or government funded?

        • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

           Hey Katerina … if you are asking me personally … my answer is “maybe”. It all depends on what purpose it serves. And it is an irrelevant question. My point is this … an over stressed doctor has better places to spend their time than social media.

          Dike
          Dike Drummond MD
          http://www.thehappymd.com

    • http://twitter.com/FinancialBrand The Financial Brand

      Big difference between B2B publications (like this blog) and B2C communications (that this blog post is addressing). There is no question social channels have value in B2B, particularly on the subject of social media advice.

      It might strike you as a bit ironical, but paradoxical? No.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Hey Katerina – have you looked at my website? I can show a direct, linear and easily measurable ROI on my social media activities. The typical practicing doctor (my clients) cannot. The advice and the method in which I deliver it is valid. No paradox.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://twitter.com/FinancialBrand The Financial Brand

    Try telling your CFO that something that can’t be measured has value, and vice versa.

  • http://twitter.com/FinancialBrand The Financial Brand

    The corollaries between health care and financial services are clear: both are heavily regulated, and both struggle to find their footing in social spaces.

    I wrote a very similar (albeit longer) article about “Why Social Media Is a Waste of Time for Most Banks and Credit Unions” back in 2010.
    http://thefinancialbrand.com/15465/11-reasons-social-media-is-a-waste-of-time-for-financial-institutions/

  • http://www.practitionersolutions.com Niamh van Meines

    It seems that you are missing the point here. Healthcare practitioners are educators, so writing educational blogs and articles is exactly what needs to show up in the streams of needy twitter and facebook users. They are all online googling and searching healthcare information. Perhaps referrals and new patients come out of it for you. Have you checked where your referrals are coming from? It’s quite short sighted to view the value in terms of dollars and cents. What about the ROI in helping someone to know about their condition from a resource who is an expert in their field. Or that you become well known for your area of expertise in your community?..If it’s not you online providing the information, than WHO?

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       It seems you are missing the point Niamh – doctors are burned out. On average 1/3 of doctors every day suffer from symptomatic burnout. If you can’t show an ROI on your tweeting activities … then the time is better spent with your spouse and kids. AND I can’t find a social media consultant with a case study showing a measurable ROI for an insured doctor. Do you have such a case study?

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

      • http://www.practitionersolutions.com Niamh van Meines

        Since burnout is your specialty area, perhaps your view is skewed. In the field that I am familiar with, hospice and palliative medicine, the hpm practitioners that I tweetchat with and engage on social media with thoroughly enjoy what they do, love being a resource and educating others about hospice and palliative care despite the topic being very difficult and challenging. All of these people are successful practitioners in addition to having full happy lives. All of those practitioners are excellent case studies of positive ROI. Feel free to join our #hpm tweetchat on Wednesdays at 9pm EST where you can witness the healthy love for healthcare and social media and maybe you can pose your question to them.

  • http://www.practitionersolutions.com Niamh van Meines

    This is a publicity stunt right? Love how you are plugging your website with each response!

    Niamh van Meines
    http://www.practitionersolutions.com

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Hey Niamh … the work I do saves careers, lives and marriages. The last client who hired me had a partner who committed suicide. THIS IS NO STUNT.

      I have an ethical imperative to share the tools research is showing work to prevent burnout in physicians and healthcare providers. The research is solid … burnout effects one in three docs every day. Social Media is just another burden if there is no ROI and could be the straw that broke the camels back for some.

      If a reader wants to learn more about how I might be able to help, they have an easy way to do so with the link I have in my signature file in all my web posts and emails. No “stunt” I assure you.

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

      • http://www.practitionersolutions.com Niamh van Meines

        Well done. We need people like you to help people in need.

  • http://twitter.com/timsenior Tim Senior

    Financial Return on Investment isn’t the only reason we do things in medicine – indeed, if it was, there would be a lot we wouldn’t be doing at all. The only system that comes close to rewarding quality care financially is in the UK, under the quality and outcomes framework, but even this is a mixed bag. In other systems we are rewarded for for patient volume and number of procedures, often with no evidence of benefit. There is very often a compromise between quality of care and financial reward, and we each choose where we set the bar with this. In addition, the Inverse Care Law is alive and well, which means that providing quality care for those who need it most usually goes against any return on investment financially.

    However, if we start to measure our return on investment in non-financial ways, such as quality of care, access to health care for those who have most difficulty, or even job satisfaction, then the equation might become a bit different. It doesn’t mean everyone will jump into social media, but it does mean people might do it for non-financial reasons, and that these are entirely legitimate.

    • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

       Hey Tim … I totally agree that the financial ROI is not the only reason for doing things in your practice. I am measuring the ROI here on the improvement (or lack of same) in the Physician’s Quality of Life – NOT the patient … the Physician.

      I don’t think anyone will argue doctors don’t work hard enough or spend enough time on the job. Burnout effects 1/3 every single day. … along comes social media and the tidal wave of recommendations from the consultants that
      “You Should Have a Social Media Presence”.

      I contend that – in an environment of overwhelm – this additional time and energy drain should have an ROI … or it could end up being the straw that broke the camels back. And no one can show me a case study showing a measurable positive ROI for an insured doctor. Do you have one?

      Dike
      Dike Drummond MD
      http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

    I am still looking for a social media consultant who has a case study of a doctor paid by insurance showing a measurable positive ROI for their social media activities. If you have that case study, please post here or contact me directly. Until then … the insurance reimbursed docs can head home early and recharge their batteries IMHO. Lot’s of interesting comments so far and no proof of ROI.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.practitionersolutions.com Niamh van Meines

    Just received this interesting email from Dr. Drummond, I think it speaks for itself:

    Name: Dike Drummond MD
    Email: dikedrummond@gmail.com
    Phone:
     
    Subject: Niamh van Meines – your comment on KevinMD
    Message: Hey Niamh,
     
    Thanks for your snarky comment on KevinMD.com regarding my “publicity stunt”. It really set me up to reply with a nice description of what I do for burned out doctors.
     
    I am sure it will bring me more clients.
     
    Have a great day,
     
    Dike
     

    This mail is sent via the Contact Us form on Practitioner Solutions http://practitionersolutions.com
     

  • http://www.alittlehappi.blogspot.com/ Sophie

    I’m an aspiring physician and I write a blog. I’d like to think that the more information that is out there for patients, the better. Also, social media helps fill the gap between patients and physicians. Wouldn’t it be great if a patient can tweet his doctor to ask a quick question? We can’t ignore technology but should think of more useful ways to integrate social media within the practice of medicine. 

    alittlehappi.blogspot.com

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

     Hello Sophie – sure it would be great if a patient could tweet to ask a question, but you would be medicolegally responsible for your reply and perhaps even violate confidentiality. In theory, all this is great. In the real world you must be careful.

    And my point on ROI is to invest your time where it does the most good. If you are exhausted and burned out … it is not on social media – ask your significant other and they will back me up on this.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

  • http://www.thehappymd.com/ Dike Drummond MD

    I am still looking for a social media consultant who has a case study
    of a doctor paid by insurance showing a measurable positive ROI for
    their social media activities. If you have that case study, please post
    here or contact me directly. Until then … the insurance reimbursed
    docs can head home early and recharge their batteries IMHO. Lot’s of
    interesting comments so far and no proof of ROI.

    Dike
    Dike Drummond MD
    http://www.thehappymd.com

  • Patrick Chavoustie

    I agree with 99% of this article. We only offer social media to our clients who beg for it and here is why.
    Like anything else social media only works if you actually work for it. If a Doctor, NP, PA invested 10 mins per day personal connecting with their audience/groups I believe they would see and be able to track a return on investment. Often times family practices will dedicate time to working and or helping the general public though events such as health fairs and clinics. Actually meeting people at these types of event will promote your practice and for many is well worth while. 
    People use social media as a way of connecting with others, time is needed in order to actually connect. Without this time investment social media simply wont work. 

    Patrick Chavoustie
    CEO 
    Omnimedicalmarketing.com