Pharmaceutical sponsored dinners have educational value

It is insulting to think that doctors who are ostensibly smart enough to save one’s life are in fact so stupid, or merely gullible enough, to be swept away by what is in actuality only a very weak potion of sales-presentation intermixed with and embedded within generally informative and pharmaceutical-balanced subject-focused medical lectures.

Such lectures occur usually at a private function room at a restaurant or, in conjunction with a served dinner. It is the dinner-aspect that rankles the politicians, who are under the presumption that a served meal (or the associated thankfulness for same) will override doctors’ better sensibilities at the time of later writing prescriptions.

These prescriptions will be written after evaluating patients, in consideration of best medical practice, desirous of success, yet under the eternal threat of malpractice or failure. Somehow though at the time of prescription-writing a long-ago-digested meal’s meaning and memory will predominate over the preponderance of acute medical and clinical data, diagnosis, and thought.

Are our medical professionals so much more corruptible than our politicians? How is it that politicians are somehow able to sit through thousands of dollars worth of lobbyist-, or other political-contribution dinners without having their opinions or actions influenced (insert laugh track here) — yet physicians are unable to maintain their balance and bearing, after the occasional dinner? At these dinners there is generally a group of a dozen or more physicians, whereas at lobbyists’ convocations for politicians, the politician may be in fact the only person being fêted. In which situation is there a higher likelihood of monetary-influenced opinion-changing?  Where is the ban on politicians’ attending lobbyist-sponsored dinners? Will politicians be clamoring for this anytime soon?

The pharmaceuticals associated with these dinners have already passed scrutiny by the FDA in order to reach market. This is a very high bar, a high standard to meet, and generally tens of millions of dollars have been invested in the pharmaceutical substance to bring it to market. It is sensible and necessary for future innovation and for current incorporation of information to have the prescribing population become aware of newer medications (and of utilization changes of older medications).

Politicians also ignore the fact that pharmaceutical companies don’t exist in a vacuum. Pharmaceutical companies, on the other hand, compete with each other. For every dinner that I went to in years past for promotion of, for instance, Viagra, I would also invariably attend dinners for competitors Cialis and Levitra. I would leave these lectures better informed about the ED-problem, the nature of PDE5 inhibitors, the possibility of side effects, but not “in the bag” for one brand or the other.

I have no doubt that physicians are adept enough, smart enough, and well enough balanced to make appropriate medical decisions based on the information out there. These “live,” pharmaceutical-sponsored, educational sessions serve a useful adjunct function for dissemination of information, bringing physicians together and allowing physicians directly to question skilled and knowledgeable lecturers — in my experience, with questions more about disease-states than about specific medications.

Physicians are quite busy and are also hard workers and high earners. Their working time is valuable and their free time is in a sense equally or more valuable. In order to bring doctors actionable and timely information, pharmaceutical companies knowingly and sensibly offer this non-monetary stipend of a sociable and social outing, a dinner. This is a nontransferable momentary benefit that is literally consumed at the spot.

I remember leaving these dinner lectures “full,” but generally more full of newly acquired subject-matter knowledge. The lectures themselves would barely mention a given sponsoring product, but even if they did, I would trust, and do trust, doctors during business hours to make their best decisions in accordance with the realities of a situation.

Even for the speaker, giving these lectures does not represent a “conflict of interest.” The pharmaceutical company is simply happy to have the FDA-approved data presented to the audience. After that, the more thoughtful and neutral the speaker is with regard to the medication, the more credibility is maintained. Does the legislature want to keep suppressing the opportunity to hear truly balanced presentations?

Bringing back these sociable collegial events will help Massachusetts compete for “the best and brightest” physicians. Certainly we create a fair number here in our training institutions, but retention may be another matter.

The Massachusetts legislature holds a possibility in current session of repealing this “gift”-ban. Please do all you can in contacting your legislators to help further this process towards repeal.

Randall S. Bock is a primary care physician who blogs at Doctoring the Evidence.

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  • Sharon MD

    The pharma companies wouldn’t spend their money on these dinners if they didn’t lead to increased sales of their products. I know we all think we’re too smart to be misled, but really, are the companies going to pay for you to listen to a lecture that doesn’t make their product look good and that doesn’t lead you to prescribe it more often? So many of these dinners promote new drugs that are no better than the old ones but cost our patients thousands of dollars a year. And many of the dinners promote medications that will in the future be proven ineffective or dangerous (example: vioxx did not prevent stomach ulcers, despite the theoretical advantages it had, and ended up causing cardiovascular problems).

    I know these events seem innocent and informative, but in the end it’s our patients (and all of us) who pay the price, both in terms of overutilization of expensive treatments and in terms of the pharmaceutical companies increasing their prices so they can pay for our dinners. We need to find another way to keep our knowledge up to date, and we need to pay for our own meals.

    • james e.

      A lot of claims are made not much proof. Vioxx with or without dinners would have meet the same fate etc. It was just a matter of time. It seems to me we have a politically tainted group of folks who feel they know much more than the rest of us. Considering how limited our knowledge really is, we are not in desperate need of their “enlightened” guidance. .

  • rezmed09

    Advertising, in its many forms, works. That is why companies spend money, lots of money, on it. It generates more business, even if the product is not that good. The belief that somehow because we are smart or educated, we are not affected by advertising is not realistic. I am not saying that by going to some pharma-sponsored lecture, you park your critical thinking at the entrance, but you remain susceptible to the principles of advertising – product placement, biased studies or biased data presentation and of course “sexiness”.

    I can learn from drug ads, from patients following the “ask your doctor about…”, and from lectures – hell, I could learn a lot from going on a trip to NYC paid for by the makers of the next expensive biologic agent or latest scanner. But how much is educational versus sales pitch?

  • http://fertilityfile.com IVF-MD

    Recently, I organized a meeting of all the area doctors in my field. We met for dinner (about 25 or us) and we debated the latest topics of patient management. It was universally well-received as being extremely educational. We learned (no surprise) that we all manage patients a little differently and we all picked up some tips and ideas that we could take home and implement in our own practices. In past meetings, I’ve witnessed extreme polarization where one physician absolutely adores this one drug (a generic by the way) and another physician absolutely hated it. Then each of us shared our own clinical experience as well as available published studies and we all went away a little smarter and better equipped to help our patients.

    Multiple pharma companies have contacted me offering to sponsor the next meeting, but I declined when I found out all the strings attached. These were not stemming from their own wishes, but rather from government regulations. If we wanted to allow them to sponsor, then we could not have autonomy over the topic, but would rather need to have a set lecturer there. Ironically, the regulations in this scenario actually ADD to the potential for bias. Without the regulations, we could have the different companies alternate in sponsoring the dinners in exchange for us listening to a 5-min introductory message prior to our meetings. We then have the reps exit, leaving us along to have full automony on the topic and direction of the discussion. However, that is not permitted now. Instead, if we want them to sponsor, we would be forced to have a speaker that they choose, which pretty much defeats the whole purpose of this type of round-table discussion. Ironic.

  • ninguem

    I’m sick and tired of the hair shirts and constant self-flagellation. Pick up the paper. Charlie Rangel. Maxine Waters. The pharmaceutical money that used to go to the sticky pads just goes to the insurance administrators, hospital administrators, those not bound by any oath, tradition or licensure to act in the best interest of patients.

    Then they turn around and accuse US of being unethical.

  • JEB Johnson, MD

    Such naivete. The most gullible are those who think they are impervious to the marketing becaue they think they are too smart to be influenced. I have a very high IQ and many years of education but that does not make me an expert in rocket science or marketing. Pharmacetical companies can afford the best minds in marketing and they do because it works. We can give up the samples and the dinners and they will find other ways to get to us, like marketing directly to our patients.

  • http://drpullen.com Edward Pullen MD

    I think you overestimate your immunity to influence by these dinners and other contact with Pharma reps. Big pharma doesn’t wine and dine us to educate us in gerneral, but to educate us about problems we are more likely to use their expensive drugs to treat. See an earlier post http://drpullen.com/2010/02/20/drug-companies-need-high-prices-to-keep-up-rd-not/

  • David Chowes

    Of course any pharmaceutical sponsored meeting can have great value.

    But, every physician, health care profosseional, scientist… should hold a degree of scrutiny and cynicism because some of the presentations and lectures may be spinned and distorted due to the obvious fact that any comany involved wants to sell various drugs to make a greater profit.

    That’s their bottom line.

  • LynnB

    I would echo IVF-MD . One reason the meeting is at dinner is so people can eat on the way home , rather than drive 1/2 hour home, 1/2 hour to dinner and 1/2 hour home again .

    We have had weekly meetings for 20+ years where we buy a catered lunch form the local deli with our own money to discuss cases, but there is no preparation and some of these are better than others . We invited our colleagues form the next town for a similar dinner and even picked cases –it was so expensive to rent ANY banquet room the idea fizzled . Rooms in one hospital or another are not “neutral turf” nor is someone’s home .

    One of the specialty groups was able to pull it off, two of the docs docs paid for everyone’s hospital catered dinner at a clinic meeting room. When you are trying to get a (high paid) specialty grand rounds started and charge people $15 to attend , it just sets the wrong tone.

    Some of our just out school docs share their one vehicle with their spouse, and most have 4 digit loan payments,it is truly an issue to pay for dinner plus the rental of a venue. I personally have unlimited funds, so its not an issue

  • Molly Ciliberti, RN

    What I resent is paying enormous amounts of money for my prescriptions because the drug companies spend their money on “educational dinners” to woo doctor’s into prescribing their drugs. There is an incredible amount of money spent on marketing and advertising that we pay for when we buy our prescriptions and I resent that.

  • doctor

    To above comment: will you then take generics that are not associated with promotions? I don’t go to these dinners because my time is precious, but I agree that we have enough self control to not let the p.r. alter our prescribing habits and that the politicians who are critical are full of it- criticizing a “gift” of a pen or pad (less than the bank or real estate office gives away) while the politicians go on their junket vacations to “learn more” about the issues.

  • http://www.talktoyourunconscious.wordpress.com BobBapaso

    I went to pharma dinners because I liked the idea of free food, and if it was good, that memory was associated with the brand name drug. I have also, on occasion, prescribed the first drug which came to mind, rather than look up the alternatives and their pros and cons, during a busy work day. I have done that at home, at my leisure, for medicines I have needed myself, or used routinely. CME courses should be prepared by impartial third parties, like Universities. We could let pharma contribute to these projects if they want to.

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