<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Rheumatologists debate whether fibromyalgia is really a disease</title> <atom:link href="http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:27:00 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: James</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-120849</link> <dc:creator>James</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:58:16 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-120849</guid> <description>Rheumatology academicians for 30 years have labored away at a confabulatory diagnosis (the neuro-interpretive hypothesis termed fibromyalgia) which depends on NOT finding proportionate musculoskeletal pathology to explain the patient&#039;s complaints. It&#039;s just as hypnotic and just as wrong as the acid-stress theory of ulcers.What is the pragmatic physician to do with all this ?  Here&#039;s another way I can offer. When you get down to concretely examining patients with seemingly &quot;widespread&quot; soft-tissue pain (which for many has a troublesome pattern of fluctuating persistency), you find a selection of very rational ailments. The most common are trapezio-cervical strain, rotator cuff syndromes, epicondylitis, iliac crest strain, and trochanteric pain disorder (a form of gluteus medius tendinopathy).  It takes about 3 focal sources of pain to flood a person&#039;s reportage to the point where terms such as &quot;pain all over&quot; start to be heard. Of 30 more-or-less common soft-tissue ailments of the human body, all occur in the setting of everyday auto-traumatic myo-tendinous resiliency disorders.  There is nothing mysterious or neuro-interpretive about them -- in fact they are biomechanically explainable and even inevitable for our locomotor structure and its weak links.  They are not &quot;muscular&quot; specifically but are the result of powerful normal muscles transmitting forces through weaker myo-tendinous and tendo-osseous transition structures to cause pathology. Rheumatology has done a poor job of educating the medical world about myotendinous disorders.  The published investigators have gone so far off the rails that they literally speak another language and have created para-scientifc factoids which seem to justify their hypothesis. For instance, all the findings of abnormal fMRI&#039;s and altered pain thresholds are the result of comparisons with pain-free control cases -- if you used other pain populations as comparators you&#039;d find that the &quot;abnormalities&quot; are simply the body&#039;s way of handling any persistent pain. Further, the tender point exam is a useless exercise searching for abstract signals that the patient is too sensitive.Why not instead do an anatomically-informed exam searching for rational pathology? The human locomotor system has stereotypical themes which are easily enumerated and clarified ... even in the most neurotic individuals. In fact, finding and explaining those themes makes the patient a lot less neurotic.Most rheumatologists, rightly, would rather chew tinfoil than see a patient for whom they expect to use the &quot;fibromyalgia&quot; paradigm. It&#039;s a painful exercise in disinformation, it&#039;s misogynistic, and produces emotional and cognitive dissonance in all parties.Contrarily, it is a surprisingly satisfying medical experience to deconstruct &quot;widespread&quot; pain into its components and find that the individual features are anatomically rational (and frequently very treatable).  No mysteries involved and no matrix of non-locomotor symptoms is attached (all that irritable bowel, fatigue, cognitive defects, bladder stuff is common in the general population).The fibromyalgia hypothesis has been very damaging to medical reasoning and is one of the most egregious intellectual misadventures of our time.For anyone further interested in this and who&#039;d like an option to the fibromyalgia theory of Smythe, Yunus, Wallace, Clauw, Russell, Crofford and others ...  I can provide a powerpoint presentation as well as a link to a grand rounds presentation detailing myotendinous pain disorders and developing a critique of fibromyalgia.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rheumatology academicians for 30 years have labored away at a confabulatory diagnosis (the neuro-interpretive hypothesis termed fibromyalgia) which depends on NOT finding proportionate musculoskeletal pathology to explain the patient&#8217;s complaints. It&#8217;s just as hypnotic and just as wrong as the acid-stress theory of ulcers.</p><p>What is the pragmatic physician to do with all this ?  Here&#8217;s another way I can offer. When you get down to concretely examining patients with seemingly &#8220;widespread&#8221; soft-tissue pain (which for many has a troublesome pattern of fluctuating persistency), you find a selection of very rational ailments. The most common are trapezio-cervical strain, rotator cuff syndromes, epicondylitis, iliac crest strain, and trochanteric pain disorder (a form of gluteus medius tendinopathy).  It takes about 3 focal sources of pain to flood a person&#8217;s reportage to the point where terms such as &#8220;pain all over&#8221; start to be heard. Of 30 more-or-less common soft-tissue ailments of the human body, all occur in the setting of everyday auto-traumatic myo-tendinous resiliency disorders.  There is nothing mysterious or neuro-interpretive about them &#8212; in fact they are biomechanically explainable and even inevitable for our locomotor structure and its weak links.  They are not &#8220;muscular&#8221; specifically but are the result of powerful normal muscles transmitting forces through weaker myo-tendinous and tendo-osseous transition structures to cause pathology. Rheumatology has done a poor job of educating the medical world about myotendinous disorders.  The published investigators have gone so far off the rails that they literally speak another language and have created para-scientifc factoids which seem to justify their hypothesis. For instance, all the findings of abnormal fMRI&#8217;s and altered pain thresholds are the result of comparisons with pain-free control cases &#8212; if you used other pain populations as comparators you&#8217;d find that the &#8220;abnormalities&#8221; are simply the body&#8217;s way of handling any persistent pain. Further, the tender point exam is a useless exercise searching for abstract signals that the patient is too sensitive.</p><p>Why not instead do an anatomically-informed exam searching for rational pathology? The human locomotor system has stereotypical themes which are easily enumerated and clarified &#8230; even in the most neurotic individuals. In fact, finding and explaining those themes makes the patient a lot less neurotic.</p><p>Most rheumatologists, rightly, would rather chew tinfoil than see a patient for whom they expect to use the &#8220;fibromyalgia&#8221; paradigm. It&#8217;s a painful exercise in disinformation, it&#8217;s misogynistic, and produces emotional and cognitive dissonance in all parties.</p><p>Contrarily, it is a surprisingly satisfying medical experience to deconstruct &#8220;widespread&#8221; pain into its components and find that the individual features are anatomically rational (and frequently very treatable).  No mysteries involved and no matrix of non-locomotor symptoms is attached (all that irritable bowel, fatigue, cognitive defects, bladder stuff is common in the general population).</p><p>The fibromyalgia hypothesis has been very damaging to medical reasoning and is one of the most egregious intellectual misadventures of our time.</p><p>For anyone further interested in this and who&#8217;d like an option to the fibromyalgia theory of Smythe, Yunus, Wallace, Clauw, Russell, Crofford and others &#8230;  I can provide a powerpoint presentation as well as a link to a grand rounds presentation detailing myotendinous pain disorders and developing a critique of fibromyalgia.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Wellescent Health Blog</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116762</link> <dc:creator>Wellescent Health Blog</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:55:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116762</guid> <description>At some point, the debate as to whether fibromyalgia is a disease or not is just that, a debate and a theoretical one at that. A patient has symptoms and is suffering regardless of whether they may have attempted to diagnose themselves. At that point, it is up to the physician to use all of the available diagnostic tools required in order to find out how best to alleviate the suffering of the patient. Whether or not that results in a diagnosis of fibromyalgia is only relevant in so far as it solves the problems for the patient.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At some point, the debate as to whether fibromyalgia is a disease or not is just that, a debate and a theoretical one at that. A patient has symptoms and is suffering regardless of whether they may have attempted to diagnose themselves. At that point, it is up to the physician to use all of the available diagnostic tools required in order to find out how best to alleviate the suffering of the patient. Whether or not that results in a diagnosis of fibromyalgia is only relevant in so far as it solves the problems for the patient.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nuclear Fire</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116753</link> <dc:creator>Nuclear Fire</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:23:26 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116753</guid> <description>@ David: I agree.  In fact, it used to be that I&#039;d see patients getting worked up to the hilt when the diagnosis was pretty obvious.  In contrast, now I&#039;m seeing second opinions on fibro where they haven&#039;t had what I&#039;d considered basic evaluations for inflammatory conditions, age appropriate cancer screenings, etc. &quot;Oh, you have pain everywhere, you must have fibro. Take this Lyrica and go away.&quot;  Me: Well, that calcium of 14 is a little concerning...I still think of fibro as a diagnosis of exclusion.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ David: I agree.  In fact, it used to be that I&#8217;d see patients getting worked up to the hilt when the diagnosis was pretty obvious.  In contrast, now I&#8217;m seeing second opinions on fibro where they haven&#8217;t had what I&#8217;d considered basic evaluations for inflammatory conditions, age appropriate cancer screenings, etc. &#8220;Oh, you have pain everywhere, you must have fibro. Take this Lyrica and go away.&#8221;  Me: Well, that calcium of 14 is a little concerning&#8230;</p><p>I still think of fibro as a diagnosis of exclusion.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nuclear Fire</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116752</link> <dc:creator>Nuclear Fire</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:19:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116752</guid> <description>@ Doctors&#039; Rheum: Compared to Shrinking Lung Syndrome; rapidly progressive diffuse systemic sclerosis; RA failed therapy to HCQ, SSZ, LEF, MTX, all TNF, and ritux; Class IV/V Lupus Nephritis; hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis; Rheumatic diseases presenting as paraneoplastic syndromes and of course the patient whose been worked up at two other academic centers by pan-specialists and is continuing to lose weight have ferritins in the thousands and constant fevers and leukocytosis without a diagnosis I do tend to think of fibro as quick and easy not to mention non-lethal and empowering for the patient.  I&#039;ve never found it takes anything more than some time and understanding combined with patient education.  I do know quite a few rheumatologist who no longer accept consults for fibro, so maybe you&#039;re right.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Doctors&#8217; Rheum: Compared to Shrinking Lung Syndrome; rapidly progressive diffuse systemic sclerosis; RA failed therapy to HCQ, SSZ, LEF, MTX, all TNF, and ritux; Class IV/V Lupus Nephritis; hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis; Rheumatic diseases presenting as paraneoplastic syndromes and of course the patient whose been worked up at two other academic centers by pan-specialists and is continuing to lose weight have ferritins in the thousands and constant fevers and leukocytosis without a diagnosis I do tend to think of fibro as quick and easy not to mention non-lethal and empowering for the patient.  I&#8217;ve never found it takes anything more than some time and understanding combined with patient education.  I do know quite a few rheumatologist who no longer accept consults for fibro, so maybe you&#8217;re right.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: R Watkins</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116748</link> <dc:creator>R Watkins</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:09:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116748</guid> <description>&quot;Crofford said the rheumatologists are uniquely trained and qualified to evaluate these patients, provide the best information, and devise the most effective treatment plan that meets the unique needs of each individual patient.&quot;Most of the rheums in my neighborhood won&#039;t take &quot;fibro&quot; consults.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Crofford said the rheumatologists are uniquely trained and qualified to evaluate these patients, provide the best information, and devise the most effective treatment plan that meets the unique needs of each individual patient.&#8221;</p><p>Most of the rheums in my neighborhood won&#8217;t take &#8220;fibro&#8221; consults.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Doctors' Rheum</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116741</link> <dc:creator>Doctors' Rheum</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:37:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116741</guid> <description>I don&#039;t know of any of us who have reached stage 5 who think of a fibro consult as &quot;quick&quot; or &quot;easy.&quot;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know of any of us who have reached stage 5 who think of a fibro consult as &#8220;quick&#8221; or &#8220;easy.&#8221;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: David</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116739</link> <dc:creator>David</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:26:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116739</guid> <description>Nuclear Fire,Your comments were very funny, there is always someone more sensitive than yourself to try to make you feel bad.Fibromyalgia is a work in progress.  As with any pain syndrome, we don&#039;t yet have objective measures of pain, and so everyone (doctors, nurses, other patients) are always concerned that they are missing the &#039;real problem (depression, anxiety, other sources of pain, malingering).  It could be perceived as dishonest to just label something as &#039;Fibromyalgia&#039; and prescribe drug x, instead of looking deeper into the issue.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nuclear Fire,</p><p>Your comments were very funny, there is always someone more sensitive than yourself to try to make you feel bad.</p><p>Fibromyalgia is a work in progress.  As with any pain syndrome, we don&#8217;t yet have objective measures of pain, and so everyone (doctors, nurses, other patients) are always concerned that they are missing the &#8216;real problem (depression, anxiety, other sources of pain, malingering).  It could be perceived as dishonest to just label something as &#8216;Fibromyalgia&#8217; and prescribe drug x, instead of looking deeper into the issue.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Aestivate99</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116707</link> <dc:creator>Aestivate99</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116707</guid> <description>Dear Nuclear Fire, I thought I keep reading on KevinMD that there&#039;s no such thing as easy money for docs.  Sorry, you&#039;re not that funny and I agree with Cinda.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Nuclear Fire, I thought I keep reading on KevinMD that there&#8217;s no such thing as easy money for docs.  Sorry, you&#8217;re not that funny and I agree with Cinda.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nuclear Fire</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116706</link> <dc:creator>Nuclear Fire</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:54:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116706</guid> <description>I&#039;m not sure we&#039;d be much help to a &quot;FMS/CFS Expert and Sacred Cellular Healing Health Practitioner&quot; who &quot;discovered and developed a proprietary brand of energy healing she calls Sacred Cellular Healing (SCH)&quot; that &quot;works for many illnesses&quot; such as &quot;Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and autoimmune illnesses.&quot;Maybe you can educate us so I can stop wasting my time researching JAK-STAT pathways and treating autoimmune illnesses with TNF alpha inhibitors.I believe the reason fibromyalgia has such a bad reputation and it&#039;s been hard to convince some doctors it&#039;s real is because for every 1 organic patient without psychiatric overtones you have 1000 with so much noise from the psychiatric overtones and snake oil salesmen you can&#039;t weed out the signal.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure we&#8217;d be much help to a &#8220;FMS/CFS Expert and Sacred Cellular Healing Health Practitioner&#8221; who &#8220;discovered and developed a proprietary brand of energy healing she calls Sacred Cellular Healing (SCH)&#8221; that &#8220;works for many illnesses&#8221; such as &#8220;Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and autoimmune illnesses.&#8221;</p><p>Maybe you can educate us so I can stop wasting my time researching JAK-STAT pathways and treating autoimmune illnesses with TNF alpha inhibitors.</p><p>I believe the reason fibromyalgia has such a bad reputation and it&#8217;s been hard to convince some doctors it&#8217;s real is because for every 1 organic patient without psychiatric overtones you have 1000 with so much noise from the psychiatric overtones and snake oil salesmen you can&#8217;t weed out the signal.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Cinda Crawford</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/rheumatologists-debate-fibromyalgia-disease.html#comment-116704</link> <dc:creator>Cinda Crawford</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:07:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40906#comment-116704</guid> <description>It makes me sad to see professionals such as these listed disparage an illness and 6 to 10 million patients with Fibromyalgia. There&#039;s nothing trivial, funny or inconclusive about it. There already is specific diagnostic criteria, just not a test... not yet, but maybe soon. I, personally and professionally, would love to see more compassionate reporting and actually what you as a doctor suggest to help Fibro people feel better and resume the lives that they want again so desperately. None of them want to be sick. I welcome your comments at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.healthmattersshow.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the Health Matters Show&lt;/a&gt;. Thanks, Cinda Crawford, host of the Health Matters Show and former Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome patient.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It makes me sad to see professionals such as these listed disparage an illness and 6 to 10 million patients with Fibromyalgia. There&#8217;s nothing trivial, funny or inconclusive about it. There already is specific diagnostic criteria, just not a test&#8230; not yet, but maybe soon. I, personally and professionally, would love to see more compassionate reporting and actually what you as a doctor suggest to help Fibro people feel better and resume the lives that they want again so desperately. None of them want to be sick. I welcome your comments at <a href="http://www.healthmattersshow.com" rel="nofollow">the Health Matters Show</a>. Thanks, Cinda Crawford, host of the Health Matters Show and former Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome patient.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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