<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Why price transparency won&#8217;t affect health care costs</title> <atom:link href="http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:27:00 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: Headline Commentary Sept 14-20 &#124; Health Content Advisors</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112332</link> <dc:creator>Headline Commentary Sept 14-20 &#124; Health Content Advisors</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:25:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112332</guid> <description>[...] » http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] » http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RAP</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112030</link> <dc:creator>RAP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 04:33:02 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112030</guid> <description>Apparently doctors think they are not swayed by trinkets, but if you look close enough, they are being swayed; they are just in denial.  But let’s say it’s a perception.  Patients have the perception they are swayed, so it doesn&#039;t matter whether they are being swayed or not, it is the perception that matters.  A simple proof of them being swayed is observing what they prescribe - always a brand name, never a generic. Obviously, some drug company &quot;educated&quot; them.  Seeing headlines of medical doctors, prominent medical doctors, ghost writing medical articles adds to the perception, and they are suppose to be outstanding examples of ethical behavior for the less prominent medical doctors.Now as background, I work as a civil servant in a sensitive position involving spending taxpayer monies.  I can&#039;t even accept a cup of coffee without being perceived as accepting a bribe.  Yet, I&#039;ve had medical doctors tell me that accepting such trinkets is a sign of &quot;respect&quot;.  Since doctors usually directly deal with life and death issues, which should be more important that money, why do they think they are exempt from such unethical behavior and I&#039;m not?  And I make a small fraction of what doctors make.I&#039;m still not seeing anyone on this blog getting away from the price approach to fees; the postings seem to want to go back to it.  Why? Why does the industry work so hard at hiding cost information?  For instance, when I see doctors complain about malpractice insurance being so high, sometimes stating a alleged scary actual cost; I never see them say what percentage of the fee is for malpractice insurance.  So if malpractice lawsuits were made illegal how much would the fees go down?  1%?  5%?  95%?  No one, not even the AMA will commit to a range, say 50% to 55%.  I suspect the money will be pocketed and the &quot;usual and customary&quot; fees will still go up just as fast anyway.  If so, then why change the malpractice laws?  It won&#039;t benefit the patient.Now if the true costs were known, then it would be known what fee is necessary to make the medical practitioner whole, that is reimburse the only the costs needed to make the provider, and their suppliers (who also overcharge), are in the same financial situation they were before they saw the patient. Then a fair fee can be set. Right now, there is no way of determining that, and the medical industry doesn&#039;t want a way of determining that.  If you say they do, well the perception is they don&#039;t, they want fees based on price, and perceptions matter.  If such a perception is false, then the medical community has a serious public relations problem that will no longer go away by the current policy of stonewalling. Instead of discussing it with the public, they want to discuss it only with their lawyers and legislators and keep the public confused and in the dark.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently doctors think they are not swayed by trinkets, but if you look close enough, they are being swayed; they are just in denial.  But let’s say it’s a perception.  Patients have the perception they are swayed, so it doesn&#8217;t matter whether they are being swayed or not, it is the perception that matters.  A simple proof of them being swayed is observing what they prescribe &#8211; always a brand name, never a generic. Obviously, some drug company &#8220;educated&#8221; them.  Seeing headlines of medical doctors, prominent medical doctors, ghost writing medical articles adds to the perception, and they are suppose to be outstanding examples of ethical behavior for the less prominent medical doctors.</p><p>Now as background, I work as a civil servant in a sensitive position involving spending taxpayer monies.  I can&#8217;t even accept a cup of coffee without being perceived as accepting a bribe.  Yet, I&#8217;ve had medical doctors tell me that accepting such trinkets is a sign of &#8220;respect&#8221;.  Since doctors usually directly deal with life and death issues, which should be more important that money, why do they think they are exempt from such unethical behavior and I&#8217;m not?  And I make a small fraction of what doctors make.</p><p>I&#8217;m still not seeing anyone on this blog getting away from the price approach to fees; the postings seem to want to go back to it.  Why? Why does the industry work so hard at hiding cost information?  For instance, when I see doctors complain about malpractice insurance being so high, sometimes stating a alleged scary actual cost; I never see them say what percentage of the fee is for malpractice insurance.  So if malpractice lawsuits were made illegal how much would the fees go down?  1%?  5%?  95%?  No one, not even the AMA will commit to a range, say 50% to 55%.  I suspect the money will be pocketed and the &#8220;usual and customary&#8221; fees will still go up just as fast anyway.  If so, then why change the malpractice laws?  It won&#8217;t benefit the patient.</p><p>Now if the true costs were known, then it would be known what fee is necessary to make the medical practitioner whole, that is reimburse the only the costs needed to make the provider, and their suppliers (who also overcharge), are in the same financial situation they were before they saw the patient. Then a fair fee can be set. Right now, there is no way of determining that, and the medical industry doesn&#8217;t want a way of determining that.  If you say they do, well the perception is they don&#8217;t, they want fees based on price, and perceptions matter.  If such a perception is false, then the medical community has a serious public relations problem that will no longer go away by the current policy of stonewalling. Instead of discussing it with the public, they want to discuss it only with their lawyers and legislators and keep the public confused and in the dark.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Southernsurg</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112024</link> <dc:creator>Southernsurg</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:56:59 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112024</guid> <description>What I see from all of this going on today is that we (society) need to figure out if healthcare should be like our educational system or like the free enterprise system.  I&#039;m OK either way, as long as the situation is explained before, rather than after the fact.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I see from all of this going on today is that we (society) need to figure out if healthcare should be like our educational system or like the free enterprise system.  I&#8217;m OK either way, as long as the situation is explained before, rather than after the fact.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Doc Stone</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112020</link> <dc:creator>Doc Stone</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:52:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112020</guid> <description>People will pay out of pocket to see physicians when they are convinced that they will get better service.  It puts a lot of pressure on doctors to stay on the ball--and that is good.  If you want insurance companies to instead provide you with a steady supply of patients, don&#039;t complain if they treat you like you are their rent-a-boy, because you are.  Indentured labor has always been cheap. If you want the wages that the free enterprise system provides to the best, you have to accept the insecurity and the competition that go with that.Likewise with patients.  If you want an agent of your insurance company controlling your care, if you trust corporate American that much, then limit yourself to the docs who accept the low-ball rates and get on their panels.    You will accept with that the rushed schedules and doctors who are demoralized and unable to give their best.  If you want someone who is constantly driving themselves to perform at the razors edge, you usually won&#039;t find them on the panel.   There are exceptions, but people like that usually like to put themselves where they can be rewarded for their achievements.Another aspect of this is that some people generate fees all out of proportion to any economic rationality and thereby force patients to accept the protection of the insurance company from rapacious fee setting.  Fees should not, ideally, be set by what insurance companies will pay.  They should be set by the economic reality of what pricing signals in the community about what that level of skill and effort is &quot;worth&quot;--with a bit of English on it for what people can afford.  One should look not only at what the other docs are charging, but also other professionals--accounting for the differences in risk, effort, and previous educational investment.  When my CPA is charging more than I do, I know that I am undercharging unless he is a really top dog specialist CPA, for I invested a great deal more years and hours in my training.Doctors and patients would ultimately be better served charging rational fees and insisting on collecting them, severing the, medical profession from the insurance industry.  If insurance pays for lab and hospital charges leaving docs to deal with patients on the basis on mutual terms (including charity as appropriate), then we can start to restore of the professionalism that has been lost.  As it is, medicine is becoming a profession of indentured servants and grifters.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People will pay out of pocket to see physicians when they are convinced that they will get better service.  It puts a lot of pressure on doctors to stay on the ball&#8211;and that is good.  If you want insurance companies to instead provide you with a steady supply of patients, don&#8217;t complain if they treat you like you are their rent-a-boy, because you are.  Indentured labor has always been cheap. If you want the wages that the free enterprise system provides to the best, you have to accept the insecurity and the competition that go with that.</p><p>Likewise with patients.  If you want an agent of your insurance company controlling your care, if you trust corporate American that much, then limit yourself to the docs who accept the low-ball rates and get on their panels.    You will accept with that the rushed schedules and doctors who are demoralized and unable to give their best.  If you want someone who is constantly driving themselves to perform at the razors edge, you usually won&#8217;t find them on the panel.   There are exceptions, but people like that usually like to put themselves where they can be rewarded for their achievements.</p><p>Another aspect of this is that some people generate fees all out of proportion to any economic rationality and thereby force patients to accept the protection of the insurance company from rapacious fee setting.  Fees should not, ideally, be set by what insurance companies will pay.  They should be set by the economic reality of what pricing signals in the community about what that level of skill and effort is &#8220;worth&#8221;&#8211;with a bit of English on it for what people can afford.  One should look not only at what the other docs are charging, but also other professionals&#8211;accounting for the differences in risk, effort, and previous educational investment.  When my CPA is charging more than I do, I know that I am undercharging unless he is a really top dog specialist CPA, for I invested a great deal more years and hours in my training.</p><p>Doctors and patients would ultimately be better served charging rational fees and insisting on collecting them, severing the, medical profession from the insurance industry.  If insurance pays for lab and hospital charges leaving docs to deal with patients on the basis on mutual terms (including charity as appropriate), then we can start to restore of the professionalism that has been lost.  As it is, medicine is becoming a profession of indentured servants and grifters.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Will Doctors Offices Close if People Know the Price Ahead of Time? &#124; change:healthcare</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112015</link> <dc:creator>Will Doctors Offices Close if People Know the Price Ahead of Time? &#124; change:healthcare</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:38:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112015</guid> <description>[...] Fortunately, rational thought does occasionally prevail. The recent post from KevinMD.com points out (from the physician&#8217;s perspective &#8211; no less) that price transparency won&#8217;t effect health care costs. [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fortunately, rational thought does occasionally prevail. The recent post from KevinMD.com points out (from the physician&#8217;s perspective &#8211; no less) that price transparency won&#8217;t effect health care costs. [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Southernsurg</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112014</link> <dc:creator>Southernsurg</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:33:26 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112014</guid> <description>RAP-The powers that be have decided that physcians are so stupid and easily swayed that trinkets, donuts, and God-forbid educational trips have been nipped.  But Congress is incredibly objective and smart; lobbyists still have their way.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAP-The powers that be have decided that physcians are so stupid and easily swayed that trinkets, donuts, and God-forbid educational trips have been nipped.  But Congress is incredibly objective and smart; lobbyists still have their way.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RAP</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112012</link> <dc:creator>RAP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:46:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112012</guid> <description>Make the end of that last posting &quot;low profit&quot; instead of &quot;low overhead&quot;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Make the end of that last posting &#8220;low profit&#8221; instead of &#8220;low overhead&#8221;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RAP</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112011</link> <dc:creator>RAP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:45:06 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112011</guid> <description>To Stargirl:  The $124.75 vaccine probably cost the manufacturer a lot less to make, maybe $10.00 or less, so the manufacturer is getting the profit, not the provider, and, even worse, the manufacturer found a way to snooker providers into giving patients the impression there is no profit for anyone.  If you are only looking at your own costs and profit, your not serious about looking at costs, you are still looking at price, and the manufacturer even more so.  The cost for the trinkets manufacturers give providers (donuts, lunches, &quot;education&quot; trips to exotic locations, etc.) to get them to prescribe overpriced brand name medication has to come from somewhere, and they probably try to call it &quot;overhead&quot; on their tax returns and financial statements to give the false impression they also have a low overhead.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Stargirl:  The $124.75 vaccine probably cost the manufacturer a lot less to make, maybe $10.00 or less, so the manufacturer is getting the profit, not the provider, and, even worse, the manufacturer found a way to snooker providers into giving patients the impression there is no profit for anyone.  If you are only looking at your own costs and profit, your not serious about looking at costs, you are still looking at price, and the manufacturer even more so.  The cost for the trinkets manufacturers give providers (donuts, lunches, &#8220;education&#8221; trips to exotic locations, etc.) to get them to prescribe overpriced brand name medication has to come from somewhere, and they probably try to call it &#8220;overhead&#8221; on their tax returns and financial statements to give the false impression they also have a low overhead.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: stargirl65</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-112004</link> <dc:creator>stargirl65</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:03:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-112004</guid> <description>Profit?I admit that trying to decide on the price of time managed activities is challenging.The markup on many other things is almost zilch.Cost of Gardasil vaccine: $124.75 Payment from insurance: $125.50This is pretty much how it is for all the vaccines.  Your are lucky if you get a profit of $1.00.  For that dollar you are supposed to order the vaccine, store the vaccine a fridge (not free), keep the fridge cool, manage your stock of vaccines, submit payment for the vaccine to the supplier, etc.  Where is the profit?  I actually lose money if you look at the investment vs reimbursement for the vaccines.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Profit?</p><p>I admit that trying to decide on the price of time managed activities is challenging.</p><p>The markup on many other things is almost zilch.</p><p>Cost of Gardasil vaccine: $124.75<br /> Payment from insurance: $125.50</p><p>This is pretty much how it is for all the vaccines.  Your are lucky if you get a profit of $1.00.  For that dollar you are supposed to order the vaccine, store the vaccine a fridge (not free), keep the fridge cool, manage your stock of vaccines, submit payment for the vaccine to the supplier, etc.  Where is the profit?  I actually lose money if you look at the investment vs reimbursement for the vaccines.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RAP</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/09/price-transparency-affect-health-care-costs.html#comment-111995</link> <dc:creator>RAP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:07:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/?p=40097#comment-111995</guid> <description>Price transparency obviously won&#039;t work.  But cost transparency will.  Unfortunately, the medical community will resist cost transparency since it will require establishing a prevailing wage for medical doctors and expose for all to see their profit markups.  Also, there are a lot of subcontractors that medical doctors deal with on the basis of price, not cost, and they will be even more resistant to cost transparency.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Price transparency obviously won&#8217;t work.  But cost transparency will.  Unfortunately, the medical community will resist cost transparency since it will require establishing a prevailing wage for medical doctors and expose for all to see their profit markups.  Also, there are a lot of subcontractors that medical doctors deal with on the basis of price, not cost, and they will be even more resistant to cost transparency.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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