Comments on: Will gross anatomy soon be rendered irrelevant? http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:09:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90633 Anonymous Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:19:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90633 The easiest reason to know that you weren't used as an "anatomy example" is that no academic surgeon cares enough about teaching to do everything a surgery involves just to demonstrate to students. Seriously. It's hard enough to get them to teach about patients they already are obliged to operate on.<br/><br/>Plus removing cysts is not brain surgery, and no-one would go around operating on people who don't need it to show a surgery that people will see more times than they want to anyway. The easiest reason to know that you weren’t used as an “anatomy example” is that no academic surgeon cares enough about teaching to do everything a surgery involves just to demonstrate to students. Seriously. It’s hard enough to get them to teach about patients they already are obliged to operate on.

Plus removing cysts is not brain surgery, and no-one would go around operating on people who don’t need it to show a surgery that people will see more times than they want to anyway.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90632 Anonymous Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:15:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90632 Anon 10:36 - <br/><br/>No, never. Honestly, your fears that you were simply used for entertainment are almost certainly completely unfounded. Anon 10:36 –

No, never. Honestly, your fears that you were simply used for entertainment are almost certainly completely unfounded.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90631 Anonymous Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:24:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90631 Many states have voluntary organ donor programs, usually linked to drivers' licences. Would there be an ethical or legal problem to add "donate my body to a medical school" to those programs? Many states have voluntary organ donor programs, usually linked to drivers’ licences. Would there be an ethical or legal problem to add “donate my body to a medical school” to those programs?

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90628 Anonymous Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:36:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90628 Macabre as it sounds, there is a possibility that unscrupulous surgeons at teaching hospitals orchestrate overtreatment of patients as a way of demonstrating anatomy and procedure on live human beings. <br/>I refused proposed aggressive “treatment” before a diagnosis was determined , and agreed, following scare tactics & non-disclosure of relevant medical facts, to a diagnostic abdominal surgery. Afterwards, I found myself gutted and my quality of life enormously diminished.<br/>A young student seemed very concerned about me and visited me a few times on his own kindness (the surgeon only spent about ten minutes with me and I never saw her again while in hospital.) The student remarked that numerous students, interns, and residents were invited to observe my surgery. <br/>Months later, upon obtaining my medical records, the justification for extremely aggressive (and for me, unwanted and violent) procedure was : risk reducing. The “squelae” I have suffered since has prevented me from returning to a productive life of service in my own profession. The pathology report indicates all the organs and tissue removed were healthy in appearance and in fact. The cysts were benign. <br/>Medical people at teaching institutions : <br/>have you observed what you suspect are questionably aggressive procedures applied in teaching and learning settings that could be based upon the opportunity for real life anatomy education? I have always felt that I was used by the academic staff as an opportunity to provide raw material for a teaching event. <br/>Many thanks to the reflective and thoughtful comments left by contributors to any and all of Dr. Kevin’s invitations to discuss. I have been learning much from your observations. Macabre as it sounds, there is a possibility that unscrupulous surgeons at teaching hospitals orchestrate overtreatment of patients as a way of demonstrating anatomy and procedure on live human beings.
I refused proposed aggressive “treatment” before a diagnosis was determined , and agreed, following scare tactics & non-disclosure of relevant medical facts, to a diagnostic abdominal surgery. Afterwards, I found myself gutted and my quality of life enormously diminished.
A young student seemed very concerned about me and visited me a few times on his own kindness (the surgeon only spent about ten minutes with me and I never saw her again while in hospital.) The student remarked that numerous students, interns, and residents were invited to observe my surgery.
Months later, upon obtaining my medical records, the justification for extremely aggressive (and for me, unwanted and violent) procedure was : risk reducing. The “squelae” I have suffered since has prevented me from returning to a productive life of service in my own profession. The pathology report indicates all the organs and tissue removed were healthy in appearance and in fact. The cysts were benign.
Medical people at teaching institutions :
have you observed what you suspect are questionably aggressive procedures applied in teaching and learning settings that could be based upon the opportunity for real life anatomy education? I have always felt that I was used by the academic staff as an opportunity to provide raw material for a teaching event.
Many thanks to the reflective and thoughtful comments left by contributors to any and all of Dr. Kevin’s invitations to discuss. I have been learning much from your observations.

]]> By: Brianhttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90624 Brian Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:45:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90624 I'm a very big fan of technology, and in general favour electronic solutions when available. That said, I would never opt for virtual dissection models over the real thing. I never considered real dissections a selling point when choosing my medical school, but now, one year in, I fully appreciate how much better they are than any virtual model ever could be. I'd never want to see them go, and am glad to know that my school's committed to keeping them as part of the curriculum. I’m a very big fan of technology, and in general favour electronic solutions when available. That said, I would never opt for virtual dissection models over the real thing. I never considered real dissections a selling point when choosing my medical school, but now, one year in, I fully appreciate how much better they are than any virtual model ever could be. I’d never want to see them go, and am glad to know that my school’s committed to keeping them as part of the curriculum.

]]> By: HBowman, MDhttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90623 HBowman, MD Tue, 31 Mar 2009 04:49:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90623 If nothing else, anatomy lab was useful to teach that people are different, there is not 'normal', just 'normal range'.<br/><br/>Books, programs, etc don't teach that, and youngsters expect that people were built on an assembly line. If nothing else, anatomy lab was useful to teach that people are different, there is not ‘normal’, just ‘normal range’.

Books, programs, etc don’t teach that, and youngsters expect that people were built on an assembly line.

]]> By: Dr. IKEhttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90618 Dr. IKE Tue, 31 Mar 2009 00:46:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90618 Amen. Some of the most important hours in all of my education were spent in the anatomy lab. Without it, I'm certain I would have less of a sense of wonder and amazement that I get to work with this phenomenal creation than I do...despite how disgusting and smelly life can be inside those walls. Amen. Some of the most important hours in all of my education were spent in the anatomy lab. Without it, I’m certain I would have less of a sense of wonder and amazement that I get to work with this phenomenal creation than I do…despite how disgusting and smelly life can be inside those walls.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered.html#comment-90616 Anonymous Tue, 31 Mar 2009 00:30:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/will-gross-anatomy-soon-be-rendered-irrelevant.html#comment-90616 The learning is not as thorough and long lasting either when not all the senses are engaged. I am a psychiatrist decades out of medical school yet I can still visualize the anatomy when the situation occasionally arises which demands it--usually with a strong memory of the smell of formaldehyde.<br/> <br/>Occasionally a situation does arise that calls for it. The learning is not as thorough and long lasting either when not all the senses are engaged. I am a psychiatrist decades out of medical school yet I can still visualize the anatomy when the situation occasionally arises which demands it–usually with a strong memory of the smell of formaldehyde.

Occasionally a situation does arise that calls for it.

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