<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Is loan forgiveness enough to convince students to choose primary care?</title> <atom:link href="http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:27:00 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90569</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:46:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90569</guid> <description>Loan forgiveness is really only a short-term incentive. Compared to the costs of operating an outpatient practice, with rent, staff salaries and benefits and other continuing and escalating operating costs, the student loan cost is not usually the biggest concern. That isn&#039;t to say it&#039;s unimportant, but eliminating loan payments is not going to solve the access problems we now have, nor will it relieve the likely worse problems we will develop.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Third-party payers and patients both drop costs onto small practices that did not exist for these practices a generation ago. Even the smallest practices have to have a business staff to file, follow and chase payments from insurers and Medicare, activities that can cost even the smallest practices many tens of thousands of dollars to do, something the earlier payment at the time of service model never had to bear. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Unless more money goes to providers, offsetting the effective cuts from rising operations costs, there isn&#039;t going to be an &quot;answer&quot; to the primary care access problem. Fewer doctors will accept Medicare patients, more will choose cash-based practices and see those who are able to pay for what they want.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Expecting the generalist medical community to provide costly and valuable service without payment, something that third-party payer failure to keep pace with practice costs is inherently doing, is not a reasonable or sustainable working condition. Ultimately a system that indulges itself in this kind of behavior will fail. When it does fail, we will see even worse problems than what we presently have. Under-insured lack of access will dwarf our present problems of uninsured lack of access.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loan forgiveness is really only a short-term incentive. Compared to the costs of operating an outpatient practice, with rent, staff salaries and benefits and other continuing and escalating operating costs, the student loan cost is not usually the biggest concern. That isn&#8217;t to say it&#8217;s unimportant, but eliminating loan payments is not going to solve the access problems we now have, nor will it relieve the likely worse problems we will develop.</p><p>Third-party payers and patients both drop costs onto small practices that did not exist for these practices a generation ago. Even the smallest practices have to have a business staff to file, follow and chase payments from insurers and Medicare, activities that can cost even the smallest practices many tens of thousands of dollars to do, something the earlier payment at the time of service model never had to bear.</p><p>Unless more money goes to providers, offsetting the effective cuts from rising operations costs, there isn&#8217;t going to be an &#8220;answer&#8221; to the primary care access problem. Fewer doctors will accept Medicare patients, more will choose cash-based practices and see those who are able to pay for what they want.</p><p>Expecting the generalist medical community to provide costly and valuable service without payment, something that third-party payer failure to keep pace with practice costs is inherently doing, is not a reasonable or sustainable working condition. Ultimately a system that indulges itself in this kind of behavior will fail. When it does fail, we will see even worse problems than what we presently have. Under-insured lack of access will dwarf our present problems of uninsured lack of access.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90550</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 23:41:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90550</guid> <description>If they buy you, they own you.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they buy you, they own you.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90517</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:27:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90517</guid> <description>Two problems with loan forgiveness:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1.  If it draws people into primary care who otherwise wouldn&#039;t go, it will just mean higher levels of unhappiness in the field when they find out it does nothing to correct the problems with the field.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2.  The government will then think it owns you and you will be fully subject to the whim of the mob.  Note what is going on with the AIG execs.  Take the King&#039;s Schilling and you must salute and march to the King&#039;s colors.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t think it is salary, I think it is work/business conditions.  I make the same as primary care in psychiatry, left one of the most lucrative fields for it, and am reasonably happy with it--at least less unhappy than the PCP&#039;s that I know.  While I sometimes have greed fits and regret not staying with the 400,000 a year field, I usually come to my senses on that point--but I wouldn&#039;t trade with PCP&#039;s for love or money.  My compensation is reasonable for what I do but I would not find it reasonable for what they do.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two problems with loan forgiveness:</p><p>1.  If it draws people into primary care who otherwise wouldn&#8217;t go, it will just mean higher levels of unhappiness in the field when they find out it does nothing to correct the problems with the field.</p><p>2.  The government will then think it owns you and you will be fully subject to the whim of the mob.  Note what is going on with the AIG execs.  Take the King&#8217;s Schilling and you must salute and march to the King&#8217;s colors.</p><p>I don&#8217;t think it is salary, I think it is work/business conditions.  I make the same as primary care in psychiatry, left one of the most lucrative fields for it, and am reasonably happy with it&#8211;at least less unhappy than the PCP&#8217;s that I know.  While I sometimes have greed fits and regret not staying with the 400,000 a year field, I usually come to my senses on that point&#8211;but I wouldn&#8217;t trade with PCP&#8217;s for love or money.  My compensation is reasonable for what I do but I would not find it reasonable for what they do.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Med Student</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90497</link> <dc:creator>Med Student</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90497</guid> <description>Retainer medicine is enough to bait me into primary care.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Retainer medicine is enough to bait me into primary care.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sharon</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90473</link> <dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 05:04:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90473</guid> <description>I agree... loan forgiveness will help, but in my opinion the more important reforms will be in making the job more enjoyable (less paper work, less hoops to jump through, more time with patients, more ancillary services to help us take the best care possible of our patients) and improving the way PMDs are respected within the medical profession (just because I didn&#039;t go into dermatology doesn&#039;t mean I didn&#039;t have the grades to do so, although that seems to be what many specialists think).  But as you state, the loan forgiveness can&#039;t hurt, and will help PMDs feel a little less screwed.  I really don&#039;t mind making less than others, but it hurts more when I send in my $1500 check every month.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree&#8230; loan forgiveness will help, but in my opinion the more important reforms will be in making the job more enjoyable (less paper work, less hoops to jump through, more time with patients, more ancillary services to help us take the best care possible of our patients) and improving the way PMDs are respected within the medical profession (just because I didn&#8217;t go into dermatology doesn&#8217;t mean I didn&#8217;t have the grades to do so, although that seems to be what many specialists think).  But as you state, the loan forgiveness can&#8217;t hurt, and will help PMDs feel a little less screwed.  I really don&#8217;t mind making less than others, but it hurts more when I send in my $1500 check every month.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Michael Rack, MD</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90468</link> <dc:creator>Michael Rack, MD</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:52:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90468</guid> <description>Anon 12:48,&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t know how many more PCP&#039;s we need.  I am not advocating incentivizing primary care.  I am a specialist, any incentive for primary care won&#039;t help me.  Docs who advocate for the fixing broken healthcare system are accused of being greedy or of abandoning patients (depending on if they advocate for increasing medicare/medicaid payments or if they favor concierge models)- even if they are specialists commenting on primary care.  I was just making an offhand comment previously, I am not advocating for anything.  I can live with the way things are.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon 12:48,<br />I don&#8217;t know how many more PCP&#8217;s we need.  I am not advocating incentivizing primary care.  I am a specialist, any incentive for primary care won&#8217;t help me.  Docs who advocate for the fixing broken healthcare system are accused of being greedy or of abandoning patients (depending on if they advocate for increasing medicare/medicaid payments or if they favor concierge models)- even if they are specialists commenting on primary care.  I was just making an offhand comment previously, I am not advocating for anything.  I can live with the way things are.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kipper</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90461</link> <dc:creator>Kipper</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:58:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90461</guid> <description>I don&#039;t think loan repayment will do the trick. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There&#039;s a chicken and egg problem in that I really do think that the key to making primary care appealing is to have role models who enjoy it and do it well. Which is not what we have right now; for every excellent and engaged primary care physician like my current doctor, there&#039;s a handful of dead-eyed HMO docs who never would&#039;ve gotten into medicine if they knew they&#039;d spend their days as assembly-line prescription-writers. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have noticed that the really good primary doctors I&#039;ve known generally got into it because they had a mission, generally wanting to improve care for some population or perhaps wanting to improve the practice of primary care itself. Outreach to foster that sense of mission could probably help, but what happens after a couple of generations of students take the bait and end up that HMO prescription machine? Not good for credibility. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Another concern that I wonder about now is whether new doctors going into primary care can even bank on being able to practice in that field for their entire career (if  desired), or if they&#039;re in danger of being forced out long term. I would certainly be concerned about that in their place.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think loan repayment will do the trick.</p><p>There&#8217;s a chicken and egg problem in that I really do think that the key to making primary care appealing is to have role models who enjoy it and do it well. Which is not what we have right now; for every excellent and engaged primary care physician like my current doctor, there&#8217;s a handful of dead-eyed HMO docs who never would&#8217;ve gotten into medicine if they knew they&#8217;d spend their days as assembly-line prescription-writers.</p><p>I have noticed that the really good primary doctors I&#8217;ve known generally got into it because they had a mission, generally wanting to improve care for some population or perhaps wanting to improve the practice of primary care itself. Outreach to foster that sense of mission could probably help, but what happens after a couple of generations of students take the bait and end up that HMO prescription machine? Not good for credibility.</p><p>Another concern that I wonder about now is whether new doctors going into primary care can even bank on being able to practice in that field for their entire career (if  desired), or if they&#8217;re in danger of being forced out long term. I would certainly be concerned about that in their place.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90454</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:48:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90454</guid> <description>Dr. Rack,&lt;br/&gt;You say we need more pcps. How many more?  If we don&#039;t know how many we need how do we know how to incentivize them?  And where do we need them as well?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You should be careful in claiming that as well lest the impression be given that a certAin number of them are a &quot;right&quot;.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Rack,<br />You say we need more pcps. How many more?  If we don&#8217;t know how many we need how do we know how to incentivize them?  And where do we need them as well?</p><p>You should be careful in claiming that as well lest the impression be given that a certAin number of them are a &#8220;right&#8221;.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90452</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:22:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90452</guid> <description>I finished my residecny in family practice 11 years ago, and have been practicing ever since.  It took me along time to finally admit that my choice of specialty was a mistake, but it finally happened.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The problems with primary care are at every level.  A carrot and stick approach, like a little loan forgiveness, is meaningless.  Why in the world would someone choose 150,000 per year over 400,000 per year, while at the same time garnering minimal respect from the government, insurance companies, other doctors, and last but not least, patients?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A family practitioner</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finished my residecny in family practice 11 years ago, and have been practicing ever since.  It took me along time to finally admit that my choice of specialty was a mistake, but it finally happened.</p><p>The problems with primary care are at every level.  A carrot and stick approach, like a little loan forgiveness, is meaningless.  Why in the world would someone choose 150,000 per year over 400,000 per year, while at the same time garnering minimal respect from the government, insurance companies, other doctors, and last but not least, patients?</p><p>A family practitioner</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince.html#comment-90450</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:33:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/03/is-loan-forgiveness-enough-to-convince-students-to-choose-primary-care.html#comment-90450</guid> <description>does hospitalist count?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does hospitalist count?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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