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	<title>Comments on: Is there really a physician shortage?</title>
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		<title>By: Aggravated DocSurg</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89676</link>
		<dc:creator>Aggravated DocSurg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89676</guid>
		<description>I would like to recommend that the readers of these comments go back to the top and re-read the thoughtful response of Dr. Sucher.  We have the data regarding general surgeons, and I suspect that many specialty societies can supply similar data regarding cardiothoracic surgeons, primary care physicians, etc.  Because the government and insurers have driven down reimbursement, while caring for the truly sick patient is more time consuming than ever, and while compliance with paperwork from insurers and the government is expensive, young people graduating from medical school with a mountain of debt simply are choosing fields which will maximize their financial prospects.  This ain&#039;t rocket science; even a politician should be able to figure it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to recommend that the readers of these comments go back to the top and re-read the thoughtful response of Dr. Sucher.  We have the data regarding general surgeons, and I suspect that many specialty societies can supply similar data regarding cardiothoracic surgeons, primary care physicians, etc.  Because the government and insurers have driven down reimbursement, while caring for the truly sick patient is more time consuming than ever, and while compliance with paperwork from insurers and the government is expensive, young people graduating from medical school with a mountain of debt simply are choosing fields which will maximize their financial prospects.  This ain&#8217;t rocket science; even a politician should be able to figure it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89672</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Every industry should get a jury of their peers.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Like a Bar association.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every industry should get a jury of their peers.</p>
<p>Like a Bar association.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89666</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89666</guid>
		<description>&quot;Perhaps President Obama and his health care team should look into a system whereby the doctor accused of malpractice has a jury of peers.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Every industry should get a jury of their peers.  Wall street execs behavior should only be judged by other investment bankers.  When docs sue insurance companies for failing to properly reimburse, the jury should be made up of the defendant&#039;s peers - other insurance company execs/adjusters.  It&#039;s not fair that just docs get that.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;damages awarded for emotional issues (&quot;pain and suffering&quot; type stuff)seem absurdly high.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What is the average award and payout for noneconomic damages?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;but our societal norm is to lawyer up if a bad outcome is experienced. &quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Really?  What percentage of patients who have a bad outcome file suit or make a claim?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;The court can/should award damages based on things like lifetime cost of medical care the injured party will incur, modifications to dwellings, special education, foregone wages in case of death, and the like&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sounds like you just gave money to pay doctors, contractors, and teachers.  What does the person get for the lost quality of life?  If they&#039;re pissing through a plastic tube for the rest of their life?  That have any value to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Perhaps President Obama and his health care team should look into a system whereby the doctor accused of malpractice has a jury of peers.&#8221;</p>
<p>Every industry should get a jury of their peers.  Wall street execs behavior should only be judged by other investment bankers.  When docs sue insurance companies for failing to properly reimburse, the jury should be made up of the defendant&#8217;s peers &#8211; other insurance company execs/adjusters.  It&#8217;s not fair that just docs get that.</p>
<p>&#8220;damages awarded for emotional issues (&#8221;pain and suffering&#8221; type stuff)seem absurdly high.&#8221;</p>
<p>What is the average award and payout for noneconomic damages?</p>
<p>&#8220;but our societal norm is to lawyer up if a bad outcome is experienced. &#8220;</p>
<p>Really?  What percentage of patients who have a bad outcome file suit or make a claim?</p>
<p>&#8220;The court can/should award damages based on things like lifetime cost of medical care the injured party will incur, modifications to dwellings, special education, foregone wages in case of death, and the like&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like you just gave money to pay doctors, contractors, and teachers.  What does the person get for the lost quality of life?  If they&#8217;re pissing through a plastic tube for the rest of their life?  That have any value to you?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89662</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 18:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89662</guid>
		<description>A number of these posts relate to dr shortage WRT possible malpractice suits. Perhaps President Obama and his health care team should look into a system whereby the doctor accused of malpractice has a jury of peers. There are certainly doctors who are guilty (like the recently reported case of over 100 suits filed against the same dr in a 7 month period - mainly relating to his performing unauthorized experiments in human patients using unapproved materials and failing to obtain informed consent). I believe most drs do the right thing, but our societal norm is to lawyer up if a bad outcome is experienced. It&#039;s not a panacea, and some pts might perceive it incorrectly, but it would remove jury selection shenanigans for PI/wrongful death type lawsuits - too well educated, a person of color, you look at things from a factual rather than an emotional viewpoint, work in a technical field, work for the government,perceived religious bias favoring one side or the other. (That&#039;s how it seemed to work when I was on jury duty last year.IANAL. ). Tort reform might be helpful (as in TX) - damages awarded for emotional issues (&quot;pain and suffering&quot; type stuff)seem absurdly high. The court can/should award damages based on things like lifetime cost of medical care the injured party will incur, modifications to dwellings, special education, foregone wages in case of death, and the like. (Annuities could be set up for most of those). PI lawyers around here seem to be ambulance chasers when they&#039;re not hanging around hospital waiting rooms or doing photo shoots for billboards or tv ads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A number of these posts relate to dr shortage WRT possible malpractice suits. Perhaps President Obama and his health care team should look into a system whereby the doctor accused of malpractice has a jury of peers. There are certainly doctors who are guilty (like the recently reported case of over 100 suits filed against the same dr in a 7 month period &#8211; mainly relating to his performing unauthorized experiments in human patients using unapproved materials and failing to obtain informed consent). I believe most drs do the right thing, but our societal norm is to lawyer up if a bad outcome is experienced. It&#8217;s not a panacea, and some pts might perceive it incorrectly, but it would remove jury selection shenanigans for PI/wrongful death type lawsuits &#8211; too well educated, a person of color, you look at things from a factual rather than an emotional viewpoint, work in a technical field, work for the government,perceived religious bias favoring one side or the other. (That&#8217;s how it seemed to work when I was on jury duty last year.IANAL. ). Tort reform might be helpful (as in TX) &#8211; damages awarded for emotional issues (&#8221;pain and suffering&#8221; type stuff)seem absurdly high. The court can/should award damages based on things like lifetime cost of medical care the injured party will incur, modifications to dwellings, special education, foregone wages in case of death, and the like. (Annuities could be set up for most of those). PI lawyers around here seem to be ambulance chasers when they&#8217;re not hanging around hospital waiting rooms or doing photo shoots for billboards or tv ads.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89660</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89660</guid>
		<description>Anon 6:31:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The country doesn&#039;t need to pay more, but a higher percentage of what it is paying needs to go to docs- who get a minority of the healthcare dollar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon 6:31:</p>
<p>The country doesn&#8217;t need to pay more, but a higher percentage of what it is paying needs to go to docs- who get a minority of the healthcare dollar</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89657</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89657</guid>
		<description>&#039;how does anyone know what the costs are derived from risk aversion/fear of litigation?&#039;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Have a look at: &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=283969&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#039;Another commonly cited contention is that medical malpractice litigation is driving up U.S. health spending. The authors compared malpractice claims data from the U.S., Australia, Canada, and the U.K., using information from national reports and databases. While the U.S. had 50 percent more malpractice claims filed per 1,000 population than the U.K. and Australia, and 350 percent more than Canada, payments were lower, on average, than those in Canada and the U.K. More important, average payments per capita were only $16 in the U.S. in 2001, compared with $12 in the U.K., $10 in Australia, and $4 in Canada. Including awards, legal fees, and underwriting costs, the total amount spent defending U.S. malpractice claims was an estimated $6.5 billion in 2001, or 0.46 percent of total health spending.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#039;Defensive medicine could contribute more to health spending than malpractice payments do, but it is difficult to measure and estimates vary widely, say the authors. Even the upper estimate—9 percent, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services—would explain only part of the higher U.S. health spending, they say.&#039;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#039;If litigation and waiting lists cannot explain higher U.S. health spending, then what factors are responsible? Part of the difference can be attributed to higher U.S. incomes and cost of living. But the principal factor, say the authors, is higher medical care prices. Not only do they make health care unaffordable for many Americans, the extra dollars spent are not yielding demonstrably better quality of care or patient satisfaction. &quot;Future U.S. policies should focus on the prices paid for health services,&quot; the authors say, &quot;and on improving the quality of those services.&quot;&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;how does anyone know what the costs are derived from risk aversion/fear of litigation?&#8217;</p>
<p>Have a look at: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=283969" rel="nofollow">http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=283969</a></p>
<p>&#8216;Another commonly cited contention is that medical malpractice litigation is driving up U.S. health spending. The authors compared malpractice claims data from the U.S., Australia, Canada, and the U.K., using information from national reports and databases. While the U.S. had 50 percent more malpractice claims filed per 1,000 population than the U.K. and Australia, and 350 percent more than Canada, payments were lower, on average, than those in Canada and the U.K. More important, average payments per capita were only $16 in the U.S. in 2001, compared with $12 in the U.K., $10 in Australia, and $4 in Canada. Including awards, legal fees, and underwriting costs, the total amount spent defending U.S. malpractice claims was an estimated $6.5 billion in 2001, or 0.46 percent of total health spending.</p>
<p>&#8216;Defensive medicine could contribute more to health spending than malpractice payments do, but it is difficult to measure and estimates vary widely, say the authors. Even the upper estimate—9 percent, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services—would explain only part of the higher U.S. health spending, they say.&#8217;</p>
<p>Also:</p>
<p>&#8216;If litigation and waiting lists cannot explain higher U.S. health spending, then what factors are responsible? Part of the difference can be attributed to higher U.S. incomes and cost of living. But the principal factor, say the authors, is higher medical care prices. Not only do they make health care unaffordable for many Americans, the extra dollars spent are not yielding demonstrably better quality of care or patient satisfaction. &#8220;Future U.S. policies should focus on the prices paid for health services,&#8221; the authors say, &#8220;and on improving the quality of those services.&#8221;&#8216;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89655</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89655</guid>
		<description>&quot;You can get a baseline from other industrialized countries.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So what it is it?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;After seeing this once or twice, neurosurgeons caught on and stopped working on the brain.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What did they catch on to?  Did they study the case to see if their was negligence?  What was the actual payout?  Was the case overturned on appeal?  If they can&#039;t answer these questions, their risk/reward analysis is pretty piss poor.  Perhaps not making decisions of that magnitude with regard to their patients&#039; brains is a good idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You can get a baseline from other industrialized countries.&#8221;</p>
<p>So what it is it?  </p>
<p>&#8220;After seeing this once or twice, neurosurgeons caught on and stopped working on the brain.&#8221;</p>
<p>What did they catch on to?  Did they study the case to see if their was negligence?  What was the actual payout?  Was the case overturned on appeal?  If they can&#8217;t answer these questions, their risk/reward analysis is pretty piss poor.  Perhaps not making decisions of that magnitude with regard to their patients&#8217; brains is a good idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89653</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 13:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89653</guid>
		<description>how does anyone know what the costs are derived from risk aversion/fear of litigation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how does anyone know what the costs are derived from risk aversion/fear of litigation?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89648</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89648</guid>
		<description>Anonymous 7.17 said: &#039;The answer to your question lies in risk aversion, and appropriate reward for risk. If you wish to have me perform a service on you which places you at some risk, even if that service is performed properly, there is a chance that you or your family will sue me, regardless of consent.&#039;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sorry, but legal aspects are very far from being the major drivers of cost. The costs of US healthcare are far higher than other countries when you factor this out (eg admin, insurance overheads, salaries, drug costs, fragmentation of facilities etc). The question remains whether you realistically expect yet more to be spent propping up physicians in their present offices. Or whether there&#039;s another way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous 7.17 said: &#8216;The answer to your question lies in risk aversion, and appropriate reward for risk. If you wish to have me perform a service on you which places you at some risk, even if that service is performed properly, there is a chance that you or your family will sue me, regardless of consent.&#8217;</p>
<p>Sorry, but legal aspects are very far from being the major drivers of cost. The costs of US healthcare are far higher than other countries when you factor this out (eg admin, insurance overheads, salaries, drug costs, fragmentation of facilities etc). The question remains whether you realistically expect yet more to be spent propping up physicians in their present offices. Or whether there&#8217;s another way.</p>
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		<title>By: RoseAG</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/is-there-really-physician-shortage.html/comment-page-1#comment-89644</link>
		<dc:creator>RoseAG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/02/is-there-really-a-physician-shortage.html#comment-89644</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t think White Coat&#039;s California example was that convincing. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course there will be a shortage on the Monday after a holiday weekend in the week in-between Christmas and New Year&#039;s for mothers who have children with colds who want them to be &#039;looked&#039; at.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We have so little sense of community and are so impatient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t think White Coat&#8217;s California example was that convincing. </p>
<p>Of course there will be a shortage on the Monday after a holiday weekend in the week in-between Christmas and New Year&#8217;s for mothers who have children with colds who want them to be &#8216;looked&#8217; at.</p>
<p>We have so little sense of community and are so impatient.</p>
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