Comments on: Should parents who refuse to vaccinate their children be held accountable? http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:27:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89921 Anonymous Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:49:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89921 Depending on vaccine manufacturers to unbiasedly perform research that proves their products are harmful and/or ineffective is like depending on OJ Simpson to find the "real killer."<br/><br/>C'mon... Money talks and you know it.<br/><br/>A more accurate description of the "Research" you're touting:<br/><br/>http://tinyurl.com/bwfte7 Depending on vaccine manufacturers to unbiasedly perform research that proves their products are harmful and/or ineffective is like depending on OJ Simpson to find the “real killer.”

C’mon… Money talks and you know it.

A more accurate description of the “Research” you’re touting:

http://tinyurl.com/bwfte7

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89744 Anonymous Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:15:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89744 What are you talking about? Literally dozens of studies have been completed and NONE has shown an association between vaccines and autism (the most common argument against vaccinating). These were not "pro-vaxers", they were completed by scientists asking a question using the scientific method. Look, if you have a peer-reviewed article I will read it that shows a study that backs up what you say I will read it. But you need to cite it. What are you talking about? Literally dozens of studies have been completed and NONE has shown an association between vaccines and autism (the most common argument against vaccinating). These were not “pro-vaxers”, they were completed by scientists asking a question using the scientific method. Look, if you have a peer-reviewed article I will read it that shows a study that backs up what you say I will read it. But you need to cite it.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89736 Anonymous Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:11:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89736 TM<br/><br/>This will never happen as it would require proof that vaccines are 100% safe / no risk and THAT will never happen. <br/><br/>It's also a risk that my child could be killed in a car accident so should I be held liable since I know there is a risk that could happen? Ridiculous argument. It's just more bullying tactics by pro-vaxers/ TM

This will never happen as it would require proof that vaccines are 100% safe / no risk and THAT will never happen.

It’s also a risk that my child could be killed in a car accident so should I be held liable since I know there is a risk that could happen? Ridiculous argument. It’s just more bullying tactics by pro-vaxers/

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89671 Anonymous Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:30:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89671 I am still waiting for those peer reviewed articles. I am still waiting for those peer reviewed articles.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89628 Anonymous Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:13:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89628 Anon - 8:27<br/><br/>The logistical fallacy behind your ad hominem attacks impress no one. Anon – 8:27

The logistical fallacy behind your ad hominem attacks impress no one.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89627 Anonymous Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:01:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89627 http://www.rockymountainnews.com/videos/detail/ashley-story/ http://www.rockymountainnews.com/videos/detail/ashley-story/

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89558 Anonymous Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:27:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89558 Vera Scheibener, Your joking right? The same Vera Scheibner who apparently has training in micropaleontology. Dr Scheibner was an assistant professor in the Dept. of Geology at Comenius University in Bratislava until 1969She then immigrated to Australia and was a member of the Geological Survey of New South Wales until her retirement in the mid 1980's. Dr Scheibener is trained as a paleontologist not as a medical doctor or PhD health science researcher. I am an MD, that certainly doesn't qualify me at an archeology dig site. <br/>But OK, since you brought her up let's go look for Dr Scheibener's "90 peer review journal articles" on the subject. <br/><br/>A pub med search revealed the following publications on Dr Scheibner:<br/><br/>1: Response to Leask and McIntyre's attack on myself as a public opponent of vaccination.<br/><br/>Scheibner V.<br/><br/>Vaccine. 2003 Dec 8;22(1):vi-ix. No abstract available. <br/><br/>PMID: 14969277 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]<br/><br/>Related Articles<br/>2: Caffeine exposure in utero increases the incidence of apnea in adult rats.<br/><br/>Tye K, Pollard I, Karlsson L, Scheibner V, Tye G.<br/><br/>Reprod Toxicol. 1993 Sep-Oct;7(5):449-52.<br/><br/>PMID: 8274820 <br/><br/><br/>Two articles, One that is nothing more than an editorial response and the other over 15 years ago in which she is the junior author (ie she was the research tech) unrelated to vaccines. <br/><br/>"Dr." Scheibner doesn't have 1 peer reviewed publication on the subject let alone 90 according to the world-wide premier medical/health science search engine.<br/><br/>Look either list peer reviewed articles that back up your position or go back to mismanaging your patients. That is if you really are a doctor. Vera Scheibener, Your joking right? The same Vera Scheibner who apparently has training in micropaleontology. Dr Scheibner was an assistant professor in the Dept. of Geology at Comenius University in Bratislava until 1969She then immigrated to Australia and was a member of the Geological Survey of New South Wales until her retirement in the mid 1980′s. Dr Scheibener is trained as a paleontologist not as a medical doctor or PhD health science researcher. I am an MD, that certainly doesn’t qualify me at an archeology dig site.
But OK, since you brought her up let’s go look for Dr Scheibener’s “90 peer review journal articles” on the subject.

A pub med search revealed the following publications on Dr Scheibner:

1: Response to Leask and McIntyre’s attack on myself as a public opponent of vaccination.

Scheibner V.

Vaccine. 2003 Dec 8;22(1):vi-ix. No abstract available.

PMID: 14969277 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related Articles
2: Caffeine exposure in utero increases the incidence of apnea in adult rats.

Tye K, Pollard I, Karlsson L, Scheibner V, Tye G.

Reprod Toxicol. 1993 Sep-Oct;7(5):449-52.

PMID: 8274820

Two articles, One that is nothing more than an editorial response and the other over 15 years ago in which she is the junior author (ie she was the research tech) unrelated to vaccines.

“Dr.” Scheibner doesn’t have 1 peer reviewed publication on the subject let alone 90 according to the world-wide premier medical/health science search engine.

Look either list peer reviewed articles that back up your position or go back to mismanaging your patients. That is if you really are a doctor.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89538 Anonymous Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:43:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89538 Vera Scheibner, PhD, has more experience than any of us will ever have in vaccine science. She has published 90 scientific papers in refereed journals in Australia and Europe. <br/><br/>The basic conclusion of her research is that childhood vaccinations are dangerous and ineffective, moreover, that proponents of vaccination often misrepresent the results of trials and tests. Through her research, she's uncovered that there is serious and widespread under reporting of serious complications. Vera Scheibner, PhD, has more experience than any of us will ever have in vaccine science. She has published 90 scientific papers in refereed journals in Australia and Europe.

The basic conclusion of her research is that childhood vaccinations are dangerous and ineffective, moreover, that proponents of vaccination often misrepresent the results of trials and tests. Through her research, she’s uncovered that there is serious and widespread under reporting of serious complications.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89537 Anonymous Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:21:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89537 PS: Journal article title from the American Journal of Epidemiology in 2008 <br/><br/>"Geographic Clustering of Nonmedical Exemptions to School Immunization Requirements and Associations With Geographic Clustering of Pertussis"<br/><br/>Why don't you read it "Doctor". PS: Journal article title from the American Journal of Epidemiology in 2008

“Geographic Clustering of Nonmedical Exemptions to School Immunization Requirements and Associations With Geographic Clustering of Pertussis”

Why don’t you read it “Doctor”.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate.html#comment-89535 Anonymous Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:58:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/should-parents-who-refuse-to-vaccinate-their-children-be-held-accountable.html#comment-89535 Anon 11:50: The problem is that it is not you and I that have a difference of opinion,but rather you and the vast majority of the scientific/medical community. <br/>The author of your weblink's latest publication is "Vaccines, Autism & Chronic Inflammation: The New Epidemic (2008)". Nevermind that not ONE peer-reviewed study backs up what she has to say. Tell you what educate me, add the addresses that include peer-reviewed articles that back up what you have to say. Not BS websites but peer reviewed scientific articles. That is how we in medicine/science answer questions. Remember the scientific method? I'll read real articles but not BS anedotal websites with an agenda (as you linked). <br/>As far as my "orwellian" rebuttal you need to reread it. What is truly "orwellian" is your idea that treating diptheria is nothing more than antibiotics, that the "sickest children I have ever seen had vaccinations" (where's the science?), that thermoseal is still vaccinations, that killers and cripplers such as diptheria, pertussis, and polio should be ignored "because they aren't a problem now". <br/>I am going to steal wiki's definition of "orweillian" here for you to read:<br/> <br/>The adjective Orwellian describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past.....<br/><br/>Let me ask you a question. Where are the peer reviewed studies that back up your belief? Where really is the misinformation coming from? <br/><br/>I have never stated vaccine should be mandatory, I have stated that parent's who refuse vaccine should accept responsibility for their decision. This includes home schooling children in those states that do not allow philisophical objections. Just who is being "orwellian"?<br/><br/>One last question which I will ask yet again: Have you ever taken care of a polio survivor with post-polio syndrome? If so, with their next visit why don't you ask him/her about the good ole days before Salk/Sabin. Ask him/her what happened. <br/>PS: With my patients I practice evidence-based medicine and follow the guidelines when possible. My family is sleeping as I type this, but thanks for the warped prejudgment. Anon 11:50: The problem is that it is not you and I that have a difference of opinion,but rather you and the vast majority of the scientific/medical community.
The author of your weblink's latest publication is "Vaccines, Autism & Chronic Inflammation: The New Epidemic (2008)". Nevermind that not ONE peer-reviewed study backs up what she has to say. Tell you what educate me, add the addresses that include peer-reviewed articles that back up what you have to say. Not BS websites but peer reviewed scientific articles. That is how we in medicine/science answer questions. Remember the scientific method? I'll read real articles but not BS anedotal websites with an agenda (as you linked).
As far as my "orwellian" rebuttal you need to reread it. What is truly "orwellian" is your idea that treating diptheria is nothing more than antibiotics, that the "sickest children I have ever seen had vaccinations" (where's the science?), that thermoseal is still vaccinations, that killers and cripplers such as diptheria, pertussis, and polio should be ignored "because they aren't a problem now".
I am going to steal wiki's definition of "orweillian" here for you to read:

The adjective Orwellian describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past…..

Let me ask you a question. Where are the peer reviewed studies that back up your belief? Where really is the misinformation coming from?

I have never stated vaccine should be mandatory, I have stated that parent's who refuse vaccine should accept responsibility for their decision. This includes home schooling children in those states that do not allow philisophical objections. Just who is being "orwellian"?

One last question which I will ask yet again: Have you ever taken care of a polio survivor with post-polio syndrome? If so, with their next visit why don't you ask him/her about the good ole days before Salk/Sabin. Ask him/her what happened.
PS: With my patients I practice evidence-based medicine and follow the guidelines when possible. My family is sleeping as I type this, but thanks for the warped prejudgment.

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