Should parents who refuse to vaccinate their children be held accountable?

The return of diseases that were previously eradicated is an emerging public health emergency.

Minnesota is currently dealing with an outbreak of Haemophilus influenzae, a disease that should have been eradicated with the appropriate vaccine. There were 5 confirmed cases, with 3 children not vaccinated against the disease.

A 7-month old infant tragically died, becoming the first Haemophilus fatality in the state since 1991.

Two physician-bloggers (via Dr. Val) take a stand against parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.

WhiteCoat asks, “Should parents who fail to take steps to prevent a largely preventable illness be held accountable if their children suffer a bad outcome?” The answer is yes. Those who refuse to vaccinate their children should absolutely be held responsible.

Pediatrician Rob Lamberts tries to understand the mindset of such a parent: “These parents probably thought, ‘What’s the harm? Why can’t we just wait to do the immunizations until the risk is less?’ A 7-month old infant died from this logic.”

Indeed.

Comments

Anonymous
I say yes, but ONLY if the doctor who performed the vaccination, and the vaccine manufacturer are held responsible when the vaccine doesn’t work, and if it paralyzes or kills the child.
Anonymous
wow. that comment pretty much completely sums up what is wrong with the modern american patient. i’m speechless.
Dr. IKE
It is my opinion that freedom of choice extends to all health questions. All I can do as a doctor is make an honest recommendation and deliver the best care possible if the patient chooses to follow through.
I think the fact that the child died, in and of itself, makes the parents accountable enough.
gingerb
I agree with Dr. Ike, the death of a child is punishment enough.
Vaccination is a social responsibility. I think the refusal of many to participate calls into question our obligations to one another, even if it entails some small risk to the individual.
I would prefer to see a more moral campaign – “your community, support it by vaccinating” than anything punitive.
Anonymous
I think it is unfortunate that non-MDs (e.g., chiropractors) often tell their clients that vaccinations are dangerous. Unlike other non-traditional providers, people take the advice of Chiropractors because they fraudulently present themselves as the equivalent of MDs.
In the end, I would think that giving such advice is beyond the scope of their licensure and illegal.
Anonymous
first poster,
Does the non vaxers get to be held accountable for a deadly infectious disease outbreak in the community.
Anonymous
the first commenter must work for cms, as clearly any adverse reaction to a vaccination is a “never event”
Anonymous
Should the parents be held accountable?
That’s a rather ridiculous question. If you failed to notice, should their own infant die, they will have paid a heavy price indeed.
You are talking about parents who just couldn’t be bothered to obtain protection against natural diseases, but parents who weigh risk and benefit.
You decide on their behalf there is only one legitimate choice, in every case to vaccinate against everything, and that is a flawed premise.
healerf18
Until all children become wards of the state, the decision whether or not to vaccinate will rightfully remain with the parents. This means that some will will exercise their freedom and responsibility by choosing to ignore public health recommendations. We may shake our heads in wonder, but in a free society people have the right to choose poorly. While this is sometimes rather messy, iron fisted governmental control is far worse. I agree with GingerB’s approach – educate rather than legislate.
Anonymous
Three points:
1: The first post is an example of the typical American patient.
2: There IS a vaccine injury fund. It was set up congress for those really injured by vaccines (very rare but it does happen) and to protect those few remaining company’s that still produce vaccines from bogus lawsuits that had driven most company’s out of the vaccine business.
3: Healerf18: Though I would agree that parents have a right to refuse to vaccinate their kids, however they should therefore not be allowed in public schools on an exemption as presently happens in many states (a state specific issue). These parent’s ignorance should not allow them to place MY children at risk. May I suggest you talk with some of the survivors of the last of the polio epidemics of the 1940′s-1950′s. Watching how some of these people deal with their post polio syndrome gives you a much different perspective on the subject (and these are the survivors).
Anonymous
If you vaccinate your child, then he isn’t at risk. Experts should advise, individuals should choose. Medical tyranny in the name of “your own good” is still tyranny.
Anonymous
What if your (vaccinated) child dies because they got infected from someone else’s unvaccinated child? Before you say it’s not possible, note the original post that there were 5 confirmed cases (of which 2 were supposedly protected with vaccination).
WEll…how about your licensed-to-drive teenager gets into a car accident with another teen who doesn’t have a license. Who’s accountable?
And yes – i realize I’m making a comparison between a license to drive and a license to live in society – but there’s a lot of things today that are just that. Some things just don’t work well underneath a critical level of “herd” immunity.
Anonymous
Anon 6:49:
You write as if you suffer from toxic individualism, very common in the USA. “Medical tyranny” indeed, could you be any more hyperbolic? And the law is not powerless as concerns health policy compliance, quarantine law being a noteworthy example.
Anonymous
It’s sad to see that many of you automatically assume that the “typical American patient” is an ignorant fool.
I am a physician, and know other medical physicians as well who oppose “mandatory” vaccination. I can assure you that we did not make this decision on a whim.
Vaccines may have value, but for someone to blindly agree that vaccines are perfectly healthy and infallible — that’s just plain foolishness.
Vaccines are not 100% effective. There is absolutely no guarantee that upon receiving them, that the child will be immune to a specific illness. If you believe vaccines are a bulletproof vest and choose to proceed with vaccinating your child, then why would you be afraid of all the unvaccinated children? If the vaccines you took work so well, you have nothing to worry about…
If we set the legality of the issue aside, and look strictly at the ingredients of childhood vaccines, you too might begin singing a different tune. Here’s the list from the CDC: http://tinyurl.com/cyqk9w
Mercury and formaldehyde aren’t very popular in the bloodstream. Regardless of how small the amounts are, I’m not inviting it into my body voluntarily.
Those ingredients alone are reason enough for parents to be alarmed about vaccination. They can have potent neurological side effects. Vaccine supporters ask, “How can you *not* do this for your child?” Parents who oppose vaccination ask, “How *could* do you this to a child?”
In closing, professionally speaking, I will always encourage patient awareness and freedom of choice.
Anonymous
Anon7:11:
re: “Vaccines are not 100% effective. There is absolutely no guarantee that upon receiving them”
Thanks we all learned that back in school. The point of course is that you will not be immune if you don’t receive the vaccine. You can also easily test for antibody titers though again that is not the 100% “gurantee” you are looking for like anything else in life. (Are you really a doctor?).
Also from the CDC website (which I know already):
“Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines”
So in general the old mercury argument is a moot point.
As far as your statment “They can have potent neurological side effects.”. Yes but long term serious effects are exceedingly rare.
Personally, I DO thnk parents have the right to refuse vaccination. But with that right comes responsibility. This includes the possibiliy their children may (and in my opinion should) be refused admission to public school and thereby understand that they may need to home school their children on their own. Herd immunity is rather worthless if the herd isn’t immune. You do have the right not to vaccinate your child. But that right does not include the “right” to put MY or other children at increased risk.
Anonymous
Anon 7:26am -
“You do have the right not to vaccinate your child. But that right does not include the ‘right’ to put MY or other children at increased risk.”
With all due respect, when deciding whether or not to inject MY child with carcinogenic chemicals, the ridiculously high unlikelihood of YOUR child developing Diphtheria (treatable with antibiotics) is not my primary concern.
The healthiest children I have ever cared for weren’t vaccinated. Oddly enough, the sickest ones were.
I’ll take my chances. You do the same.
Anonymous
If we held parents accountable for the entire health and well- being of their children. Their diet and activity level. Their social skills and reading abilities. If parents did not desire to feed their children toxic psychotropic drugs to justify their own shortcomings as parents. If parents expressed love and happiness towards their children- and strived to assure that they will be happy and confident adults, then I may say the parents should be held accountable for vaccinating their children. Since it’s obvious that too many parents are apathetic towards their children in so many other ways, the issue of vaccinations is relatively minor.
Anonymous
All I have to say is WOW.
Anon 9:28: If you really ARE a doctor I fear for your patients. Diptheria is rare due to widespread vaccinations. Though outbreaks are rare (thanks to vaccination) they still occur. In fact outbraks in Russia have been attributed to decrease in vaccination rates. Were you paying attention during your general micro classes back in school? Though diptheria is now very rare (thanks to immunization), in the 1920′s upwards of 15,000 children per year were dying in the US due to this disease.. Even with aggressive modern treatment the mortality is around 5%-10%. Speaking of treatment, it’s a little more intense than “just antibiotics”. It includes anti-toxin, aggressive respiratry/pulmonary care often in the ICU due to the concern of respiratory failure. Throw in myocarditis weeks later. I (an most american docs) have never seen diptheria thanks to immunization. However, that loss of experience can be crucial if the disease were to crop back up thanks to decreased immunization rates. Remember, this isn’t not smallpox where the only known reservoir are other humans. Your statement of “ridiculously low unlikelihood” becames less “ridiculous” and “low” proportional to the decrease number of those vaccinated. Witness the resurgence of pertussis. Witness this situation were 60% of the infected were not vaccinated and one died. An awful thing for parents to go through to know that a simple vaccination may have saved their child’s life.
Your staement that “The healthiest children I have ever cared for weren’t vaccinated. Oddly enough, the sickest ones were.”
Shows no rigorous scientific validity. It is ancedotal evidence only. Show me a study that backs up what you have to say. I’ll listen. Just like I’ve have read every study related to vaccine risk. With the exception of the 2004 Lancet study (which was shown to be flawed), no study backs up what you have to say. Thermoseal is no longer used. You are backing your opinion on nothing but fear. Is this how you educate your patients? If so, that is scary indeed.
Anon 11:27: Following your reasoning we should hold parent’s responsible for anything? Though I agree, it is hard parent’s accountable in their own homes as long as abuse is not going on, when you step into public that is a different concern. Parent’s should be responsible for not vaccinating their children including home schooling their children if banned from school due to lack of vaccinations. This is ony a “minor” issue unless there is an outbreak (which has happened with pertussis and H. flu). Then when some kid dies, it is not so minor.
PS: I really encourage the docs here who have not treated the last of the polio epidemic survivors of the 1940′s and early 1950′s to try to. It gives you much different perspective on the subject of vaccinations.
Anonymous
Clearly you have a very warped paradigm to assume that I’m not a doctor for holding an opinion contrary to your own.
Your argumentative nature makes me fear for your patients (and family).
There’s a wealth of information on this link for you to criticize:
http://www.nvic.org/myths.htm
Spare me your Orwellian rebuttal.
Anonymous
Anon 11:50: The problem is that it is not you and I that have a difference of opinion,but rather you and the vast majority of the scientific/medical community.
The author of your weblink's latest publication is "Vaccines, Autism & Chronic Inflammation: The New Epidemic (2008)". Nevermind that not ONE peer-reviewed study backs up what she has to say. Tell you what educate me, add the addresses that include peer-reviewed articles that back up what you have to say. Not BS websites but peer reviewed scientific articles. That is how we in medicine/science answer questions. Remember the scientific method? I'll read real articles but not BS anedotal websites with an agenda (as you linked).
As far as my "orwellian" rebuttal you need to reread it. What is truly "orwellian" is your idea that treating diptheria is nothing more than antibiotics, that the "sickest children I have ever seen had vaccinations" (where's the science?), that thermoseal is still vaccinations, that killers and cripplers such as diptheria, pertussis, and polio should be ignored "because they aren't a problem now".
I am going to steal wiki's definition of "orweillian" here for you to read:
The adjective Orwellian describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past…..
Let me ask you a question. Where are the peer reviewed studies that back up your belief? Where really is the misinformation coming from?
I have never stated vaccine should be mandatory, I have stated that parent's who refuse vaccine should accept responsibility for their decision. This includes home schooling children in those states that do not allow philisophical objections. Just who is being "orwellian"?
One last question which I will ask yet again: Have you ever taken care of a polio survivor with post-polio syndrome? If so, with their next visit why don't you ask him/her about the good ole days before Salk/Sabin. Ask him/her what happened.
PS: With my patients I practice evidence-based medicine and follow the guidelines when possible. My family is sleeping as I type this, but thanks for the warped prejudgment.
Anonymous
PS: Journal article title from the American Journal of Epidemiology in 2008
“Geographic Clustering of Nonmedical Exemptions to School Immunization Requirements and Associations With Geographic Clustering of Pertussis”
Why don’t you read it “Doctor”.
Anonymous
Vera Scheibner, PhD, has more experience than any of us will ever have in vaccine science. She has published 90 scientific papers in refereed journals in Australia and Europe.
The basic conclusion of her research is that childhood vaccinations are dangerous and ineffective, moreover, that proponents of vaccination often misrepresent the results of trials and tests. Through her research, she’s uncovered that there is serious and widespread under reporting of serious complications.
Anonymous
Vera Scheibener, Your joking right? The same Vera Scheibner who apparently has training in micropaleontology. Dr Scheibner was an assistant professor in the Dept. of Geology at Comenius University in Bratislava until 1969She then immigrated to Australia and was a member of the Geological Survey of New South Wales until her retirement in the mid 1980′s. Dr Scheibener is trained as a paleontologist not as a medical doctor or PhD health science researcher. I am an MD, that certainly doesn’t qualify me at an archeology dig site.
But OK, since you brought her up let’s go look for Dr Scheibener’s “90 peer review journal articles” on the subject.
A pub med search revealed the following publications on Dr Scheibner:
1: Response to Leask and McIntyre’s attack on myself as a public opponent of vaccination.
Scheibner V.
Vaccine. 2003 Dec 8;22(1):vi-ix. No abstract available.
PMID: 14969277 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Related Articles
2: Caffeine exposure in utero increases the incidence of apnea in adult rats.
Tye K, Pollard I, Karlsson L, Scheibner V, Tye G.
Reprod Toxicol. 1993 Sep-Oct;7(5):449-52.
PMID: 8274820
Two articles, One that is nothing more than an editorial response and the other over 15 years ago in which she is the junior author (ie she was the research tech) unrelated to vaccines.
“Dr.” Scheibner doesn’t have 1 peer reviewed publication on the subject let alone 90 according to the world-wide premier medical/health science search engine.
Look either list peer reviewed articles that back up your position or go back to mismanaging your patients. That is if you really are a doctor.
Anonymous
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/videos/detail/ashley-story/
Anonymous
Anon – 8:27
The logistical fallacy behind your ad hominem attacks impress no one.
Anonymous
I am still waiting for those peer reviewed articles.
Anonymous
TM
This will never happen as it would require proof that vaccines are 100% safe / no risk and THAT will never happen.
It’s also a risk that my child could be killed in a car accident so should I be held liable since I know there is a risk that could happen? Ridiculous argument. It’s just more bullying tactics by pro-vaxers/
Anonymous
What are you talking about? Literally dozens of studies have been completed and NONE has shown an association between vaccines and autism (the most common argument against vaccinating). These were not “pro-vaxers”, they were completed by scientists asking a question using the scientific method. Look, if you have a peer-reviewed article I will read it that shows a study that backs up what you say I will read it. But you need to cite it.
Anonymous
Depending on vaccine manufacturers to unbiasedly perform research that proves their products are harmful and/or ineffective is like depending on OJ Simpson to find the “real killer.”
C’mon… Money talks and you know it.
A more accurate description of the “Research” you’re touting:
http://tinyurl.com/bwfte7

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