Should parents who refuse to vaccinate their children be held accountable?

wow. that comment pretty much completely sums up what is wrong with the modern american patient. i’m speechless.

I agree with Dr. Ike, the death of a child is punishment enough.

Vaccination is a social responsibility. I think the refusal of many to participate calls into question our obligations to one another, even if it entails some small risk to the individual.

I would prefer to see a more moral campaign – “your community, support it by vaccinating” than anything punitive.

first poster,

Does the non vaxers get to be held accountable for a deadly infectious disease outbreak in the community.

Should the parents be held accountable?

That’s a rather ridiculous question. If you failed to notice, should their own infant die, they will have paid a heavy price indeed.

You are talking about parents who just couldn’t be bothered to obtain protection against natural diseases, but parents who weigh risk and benefit.

You decide on their behalf there is only one legitimate choice, in every case to vaccinate against everything, and that is a flawed premise.

Three points:
1: The first post is an example of the typical American patient.
2: There IS a vaccine injury fund. It was set up congress for those really injured by vaccines (very rare but it does happen) and to protect those few remaining company’s that still produce vaccines from bogus lawsuits that had driven most company’s out of the vaccine business.
3: Healerf18: Though I would agree that parents have a right to refuse to vaccinate their kids, however they should therefore not be allowed in public schools on an exemption as presently happens in many states (a state specific issue). These parent’s ignorance should not allow them to place MY children at risk. May I suggest you talk with some of the survivors of the last of the polio epidemics of the 1940’s-1950’s. Watching how some of these people deal with their post polio syndrome gives you a much different perspective on the subject (and these are the survivors).

What if your (vaccinated) child dies because they got infected from someone else’s unvaccinated child? Before you say it’s not possible, note the original post that there were 5 confirmed cases (of which 2 were supposedly protected with vaccination).

WEll…how about your licensed-to-drive teenager gets into a car accident with another teen who doesn’t have a license. Who’s accountable?

And yes – i realize I’m making a comparison between a license to drive and a license to live in society – but there’s a lot of things today that are just that. Some things just don’t work well underneath a critical level of “herd” immunity.

It’s sad to see that many of you automatically assume that the “typical American patient” is an ignorant fool.

I am a physician, and know other medical physicians as well who oppose “mandatory” vaccination. I can assure you that we did not make this decision on a whim.

Vaccines may have value, but for someone to blindly agree that vaccines are perfectly healthy and infallible — that’s just plain foolishness.

Vaccines are not 100% effective. There is absolutely no guarantee that upon receiving them, that the child will be immune to a specific illness. If you believe vaccines are a bulletproof vest and choose to proceed with vaccinating your child, then why would you be afraid of all the unvaccinated children? If the vaccines you took work so well, you have nothing to worry about…

If we set the legality of the issue aside, and look strictly at the ingredients of childhood vaccines, you too might begin singing a different tune. Here’s the list from the CDC: http://tinyurl.com/cyqk9w

Mercury and formaldehyde aren’t very popular in the bloodstream. Regardless of how small the amounts are, I’m not inviting it into my body voluntarily.

Those ingredients alone are reason enough for parents to be alarmed about vaccination. They can have potent neurological side effects. Vaccine supporters ask, “How can you *not* do this for your child?” Parents who oppose vaccination ask, “How *could* do you this to a child?”

In closing, professionally speaking, I will always encourage patient awareness and freedom of choice.

Anon 7:26am -

“You do have the right not to vaccinate your child. But that right does not include the ‘right’ to put MY or other children at increased risk.”

With all due respect, when deciding whether or not to inject MY child with carcinogenic chemicals, the ridiculously high unlikelihood of YOUR child developing Diphtheria (treatable with antibiotics) is not my primary concern.

The healthiest children I have ever cared for weren’t vaccinated. Oddly enough, the sickest ones were.

I’ll take my chances. You do the same.

All I have to say is WOW.
Anon 9:28: If you really ARE a doctor I fear for your patients. Diptheria is rare due to widespread vaccinations. Though outbreaks are rare (thanks to vaccination) they still occur. In fact outbraks in Russia have been attributed to decrease in vaccination rates. Were you paying attention during your general micro classes back in school? Though diptheria is now very rare (thanks to immunization), in the 1920’s upwards of 15,000 children per year were dying in the US due to this disease.. Even with aggressive modern treatment the mortality is around 5%-10%. Speaking of treatment, it’s a little more intense than “just antibiotics”. It includes anti-toxin, aggressive respiratry/pulmonary care often in the ICU due to the concern of respiratory failure. Throw in myocarditis weeks later. I (an most american docs) have never seen diptheria thanks to immunization. However, that loss of experience can be crucial if the disease were to crop back up thanks to decreased immunization rates. Remember, this isn’t not smallpox where the only known reservoir are other humans. Your statement of “ridiculously low unlikelihood” becames less “ridiculous” and “low” proportional to the decrease number of those vaccinated. Witness the resurgence of pertussis. Witness this situation were 60% of the infected were not vaccinated and one died. An awful thing for parents to go through to know that a simple vaccination may have saved their child’s life.
Your staement that “The healthiest children I have ever cared for weren’t vaccinated. Oddly enough, the sickest ones were.”
Shows no rigorous scientific validity. It is ancedotal evidence only. Show me a study that backs up what you have to say. I’ll listen. Just like I’ve have read every study related to vaccine risk. With the exception of the 2004 Lancet study (which was shown to be flawed), no study backs up what you have to say. Thermoseal is no longer used. You are backing your opinion on nothing but fear. Is this how you educate your patients? If so, that is scary indeed.
Anon 11:27: Following your reasoning we should hold parent’s responsible for anything? Though I agree, it is hard parent’s accountable in their own homes as long as abuse is not going on, when you step into public that is a different concern. Parent’s should be responsible for not vaccinating their children including home schooling their children if banned from school due to lack of vaccinations. This is ony a “minor” issue unless there is an outbreak (which has happened with pertussis and H. flu). Then when some kid dies, it is not so minor.

PS: I really encourage the docs here who have not treated the last of the polio epidemic survivors of the 1940’s and early 1950’s to try to. It gives you much different perspective on the subject of vaccinations.

Anon 11:50: The problem is that it is not you and I that have a difference of opinion,but rather you and the vast majority of the scientific/medical community.
The author of your weblink's latest publication is "Vaccines, Autism & Chronic Inflammation: The New Epidemic (2008)". Nevermind that not ONE peer-reviewed study backs up what she has to say. Tell you what educate me, add the addresses that include peer-reviewed articles that back up what you have to say. Not BS websites but peer reviewed scientific articles. That is how we in medicine/science answer questions. Remember the scientific method? I'll read real articles but not BS anedotal websites with an agenda (as you linked).
As far as my "orwellian" rebuttal you need to reread it. What is truly "orwellian" is your idea that treating diptheria is nothing more than antibiotics, that the "sickest children I have ever seen had vaccinations" (where's the science?), that thermoseal is still vaccinations, that killers and cripplers such as diptheria, pertussis, and polio should be ignored "because they aren't a problem now".
I am going to steal wiki's definition of "orweillian" here for you to read:

The adjective Orwellian describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past…..

Let me ask you a question. Where are the peer reviewed studies that back up your belief? Where really is the misinformation coming from?

I have never stated vaccine should be mandatory, I have stated that parent's who refuse vaccine should accept responsibility for their decision. This includes home schooling children in those states that do not allow philisophical objections. Just who is being "orwellian"?

One last question which I will ask yet again: Have you ever taken care of a polio survivor with post-polio syndrome? If so, with their next visit why don't you ask him/her about the good ole days before Salk/Sabin. Ask him/her what happened.
PS: With my patients I practice evidence-based medicine and follow the guidelines when possible. My family is sleeping as I type this, but thanks for the warped prejudgment.

Vera Scheibner, PhD, has more experience than any of us will ever have in vaccine science. She has published 90 scientific papers in refereed journals in Australia and Europe.

The basic conclusion of her research is that childhood vaccinations are dangerous and ineffective, moreover, that proponents of vaccination often misrepresent the results of trials and tests. Through her research, she’s uncovered that there is serious and widespread under reporting of serious complications.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/videos/detail/ashley-story/

I am still waiting for those peer reviewed articles.

What are you talking about? Literally dozens of studies have been completed and NONE has shown an association between vaccines and autism (the most common argument against vaccinating). These were not “pro-vaxers”, they were completed by scientists asking a question using the scientific method. Look, if you have a peer-reviewed article I will read it that shows a study that backs up what you say I will read it. But you need to cite it.