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	<title>Comments on: Is health care prohibition in our future?</title>
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	<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html</link>
	<description>medical blog</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-91293</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 21:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>actually in Canada, you can only be 100% in.  Physicians in Canada have been robbed of their most basic human rights -rights to be able to contract with another (in other words, the right to pursue happiness).  All Canadian doctors are forced into the contract with the government.  If they see a private patient, they can lose their license and the patient can be fined heavily.  There are no other professionals who have been so deprived of their rights.  Dentists, accountants, lawyers, pharmacists have maintained their rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually in Canada, you can only be 100% in.  Physicians in Canada have been robbed of their most basic human rights -rights to be able to contract with another (in other words, the right to pursue happiness).  All Canadian doctors are forced into the contract with the government.  If they see a private patient, they can lose their license and the patient can be fined heavily.  There are no other professionals who have been so deprived of their rights.  Dentists, accountants, lawyers, pharmacists have maintained their rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89061</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Seems in Canada, you can be 100% in, or 100% out, no in-between. Sorta like USA Medicare, where you&#039;re in or you&#039;re opted-out. I know there&#039;s controversy, and an opinion that docs can see some Medicare privately, others in the system. I&#039;d love to see that litigated and decided once and for all.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;From time to time, I&#039;ll see grumbling in the Canadina press over queue-jumping. The elite pro athletes, politicians or the politically-connected, Worker&#039;s Comp for favored employees, etc.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The more spectacular one was Jean Chrétien, who went to Mayo for medical care, and was outed when he was needed to attend King Hussein&#039;s funeral and couldn&#039;t be found. Certainly don&#039;t begrudge him for wanting treatment at Mayo, but he had to lie about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems in Canada, you can be 100% in, or 100% out, no in-between. Sorta like USA Medicare, where you&#8217;re in or you&#8217;re opted-out. I know there&#8217;s controversy, and an opinion that docs can see some Medicare privately, others in the system. I&#8217;d love to see that litigated and decided once and for all.</p>
<p>From time to time, I&#8217;ll see grumbling in the Canadina press over queue-jumping. The elite pro athletes, politicians or the politically-connected, Worker&#8217;s Comp for favored employees, etc.</p>
<p>The more spectacular one was Jean Chrétien, who went to Mayo for medical care, and was outed when he was needed to attend King Hussein&#8217;s funeral and couldn&#8217;t be found. Certainly don&#8217;t begrudge him for wanting treatment at Mayo, but he had to lie about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89043</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Primary care now offer long hours, lots of paperwork, little respect and lower pay/hour than many nonphysicians.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One of the few things that keeps me in medicine is the hope that a well run practice may find success in a niche business such as cash only.  If the government regulates that hope away, then I&#039;ll cut my losses and get out of medicine as fast as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Primary care now offer long hours, lots of paperwork, little respect and lower pay/hour than many nonphysicians.  </p>
<p>One of the few things that keeps me in medicine is the hope that a well run practice may find success in a niche business such as cash only.  If the government regulates that hope away, then I&#8217;ll cut my losses and get out of medicine as fast as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89042</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You are mistaken.  In Canada, doctors can opt out of the social system.  They then bill their patients whatever they like and the patients go to the Provincial health care system to be reimbursed.  Such reimbursement is according to a schedule.  There are some private health care clinics in highly populated areas, however in most of the country it is not economically feasible to fully separate.  Still, doctors here seem quite content with the system, albeit they are like all people and want more, more, more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are mistaken.  In Canada, doctors can opt out of the social system.  They then bill their patients whatever they like and the patients go to the Provincial health care system to be reimbursed.  Such reimbursement is according to a schedule.  There are some private health care clinics in highly populated areas, however in most of the country it is not economically feasible to fully separate.  Still, doctors here seem quite content with the system, albeit they are like all people and want more, more, more.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89037</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibition-in-our-future.html#comment-89037</guid>
		<description>anon 3:54-&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;i would still have to assume that without some assistance in the drawbacks of being a physician in america, the percentage of physicians that would quit under such a system would be greater here. my impression is that medical education is more costly in america, the legal climate is far worse, and patients have a worse attitude.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;if all of those things were to remain the same and we were to adopt &quot;the canadian system&quot;... why not move to canada and practice there, where i&#039;m working under the same conditions but less likely to be sued?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;if implementation of such a system were to result in worse outcomes, you can be sure the physicians will be held responsible by the patients and their lawyers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anon 3:54-</p>
<p>i would still have to assume that without some assistance in the drawbacks of being a physician in america, the percentage of physicians that would quit under such a system would be greater here. my impression is that medical education is more costly in america, the legal climate is far worse, and patients have a worse attitude.</p>
<p>if all of those things were to remain the same and we were to adopt &#8220;the canadian system&#8221;&#8230; why not move to canada and practice there, where i&#8217;m working under the same conditions but less likely to be sued?</p>
<p>if implementation of such a system were to result in worse outcomes, you can be sure the physicians will be held responsible by the patients and their lawyers.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89029</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So what happens to plastic surgeons who take cash only?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what happens to plastic surgeons who take cash only?</p>
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		<title>By: shadowfax</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89027</link>
		<dc:creator>shadowfax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibition-in-our-future.html#comment-89027</guid>
		<description>Kevin,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have a problem with how you framed this -- it feels fundamentally dishonest.  You lead with, &quot;One scenario envisioned by health reformists is to prohibit doctors from practicing outside a government-run system.&quot;   Now I confess that I could not read the original post at Covert Rationing, as something seems to be jamming my interwebs just now, but I am not aware of ANY health reformers who advocate such a system.   Absent a concrete example of this &quot;scenario,&quot; your lede might be more accurately phrased as: &quot;Those skeptical of health care reform are afraid of a scenario in which doctors are prohibited from practicing outside of a government-run system.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But you falsely imply that such a proposal is being advocated by reformers.  That is simply fear-mongering. If you can cite an example of such an advocate, meaning a pro-reform health policy wonk with more credibility than me, please do so.   Even so, you would do well to clarify for your readers that the nightmare scenario alluded to is not endorsed by &lt;b&gt;any one&lt;/b&gt; of the democratic leaders who are working on health care reform.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Really, I get tired of the regressives whipping up a frenzy of opposition to the NHS and CanadaCare when neither is under consideration in the US.   Geez. Get with it, people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>I have a problem with how you framed this &#8212; it feels fundamentally dishonest.  You lead with, &#8220;One scenario envisioned by health reformists is to prohibit doctors from practicing outside a government-run system.&#8221;   Now I confess that I could not read the original post at Covert Rationing, as something seems to be jamming my interwebs just now, but I am not aware of ANY health reformers who advocate such a system.   Absent a concrete example of this &#8220;scenario,&#8221; your lede might be more accurately phrased as: &#8220;Those skeptical of health care reform are afraid of a scenario in which doctors are prohibited from practicing outside of a government-run system.&#8221;</p>
<p>But you falsely imply that such a proposal is being advocated by reformers.  That is simply fear-mongering. If you can cite an example of such an advocate, meaning a pro-reform health policy wonk with more credibility than me, please do so.   Even so, you would do well to clarify for your readers that the nightmare scenario alluded to is not endorsed by <b>any one</b> of the democratic leaders who are working on health care reform.</p>
<p>Really, I get tired of the regressives whipping up a frenzy of opposition to the NHS and CanadaCare when neither is under consideration in the US.   Geez. Get with it, people.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89019</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 20:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Re Anonymous (8:57 pm). Yes it will fly. It did in Canada. Yes, a few doctors will quit. But most, faced with actually having to give up their careers or submitting to the system will submit. It happened in Canada. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Re Anonymous (10:31 pm). Wrongo. There&#039;s no real private practice option in Canada. (I&#039;m a Canadian and know what I&#039;m talking about). Yes, technically it&#039;s true, a physician can opt out of the system and run a private practice. But in Canada the choice is to be entirely in or entirely out of the system, and &quot;entirely out&quot; means effectively &quot;no patients&quot;. So virtually every physician is in the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Anonymous (8:57 pm). Yes it will fly. It did in Canada. Yes, a few doctors will quit. But most, faced with actually having to give up their careers or submitting to the system will submit. It happened in Canada. </p>
<p>Re Anonymous (10:31 pm). Wrongo. There&#8217;s no real private practice option in Canada. (I&#8217;m a Canadian and know what I&#8217;m talking about). Yes, technically it&#8217;s true, a physician can opt out of the system and run a private practice. But in Canada the choice is to be entirely in or entirely out of the system, and &#8220;entirely out&#8221; means effectively &#8220;no patients&#8221;. So virtually every physician is in the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89008</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 03:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibition-in-our-future.html#comment-89008</guid>
		<description>Looks like some folks are confused and mightneed to visit dictionary.com and review the definitions for &quot;national&quot; and &quot;socialized&quot;. AFAIK, private practice options are available in both Canada and the UK. Of course, one would have to pay full fees unless they purchased individual health insurance to supplement the care they paid for with taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like some folks are confused and mightneed to visit dictionary.com and review the definitions for &#8220;national&#8221; and &#8220;socialized&#8221;. AFAIK, private practice options are available in both Canada and the UK. Of course, one would have to pay full fees unless they purchased individual health insurance to supplement the care they paid for with taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibitation-in-our.html/comment-page-1#comment-89004</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 01:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2009/01/is-health-care-prohibition-in-our-future.html#comment-89004</guid>
		<description>no way this would fly. what percent of physicians do you envision  staying in practice if they were required to work under such a plan, for whatever the government felt was an appropriate salary? take into account the debt burden and other sacrifices needed to become a physician would not change, and the lawyers are too powerful for the threat of a catastrophic lawsuit to lessen any time soon. how do you think a move to such a system will affect the number of applicants to medical school?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;you&#039;d be left with no doctors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no way this would fly. what percent of physicians do you envision  staying in practice if they were required to work under such a plan, for whatever the government felt was an appropriate salary? take into account the debt burden and other sacrifices needed to become a physician would not change, and the lawyers are too powerful for the threat of a catastrophic lawsuit to lessen any time soon. how do you think a move to such a system will affect the number of applicants to medical school?</p>
<p>you&#8217;d be left with no doctors.</p>
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