<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Electronic records and economic sense</title> <atom:link href="http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:27:00 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86893</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:46:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86893</guid> <description>7:58/ 10:42;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;No they won&#039;t. This is already happening in hospitals with specialists who have gotten tired of being stiffed nearly every time they are called to consult in the hospital or by the ER. That is what is driving these doctors to affiliate with surgery centers and specialty hospitals that don&#039;t run emergency rooms.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You are whistling in the dark with your ideas that &quot;there will always be people who will be willing to do that kind of work.&quot; You indulge yourself in your own illusion that because things have worked so far that they will always work out (well even). There are minimum standards that doctors and caregivers have to meet, and expecting availability at sweatshop prices isn&#039;t going to work.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Doctors don&#039;t appear to fill every void as if by magic, even from India and Nigeria.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Accepting insurance is optional, but few patients with insurance will choose to go out of plan, even if they express a preference for an out-of-plan doctor. If there were such a thing as accountancy insurance, I am sure the same would apply there. Most patients with insurance see coverage not merely as indemnity but as an entitlement to not have any concern about costs or payment. Insurance companies sell their plans that way: go anywhere you want, no worries.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for Medicare, the other poster is right. To have hospital privileges (and even a state license in some states) you have to participate with Medicare.&lt;br/&gt;No, i don&#039;t have to take assignment, but for hospital physicians, that isn&#039;t always an option that allows a viable practice. Sure, you can try. You will go bankrupt.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;With Medicare, I am not allowed to offer some of my services at the allowable rate but not others, even if those are market-competitive rates. I have to &quot;opt-out&quot; by written contract with that patient and by law, if I do so, I am also required to opt out with every patient who has Medicare for two years following. That is if I provide even one service to one patient. I am not allowed to price to my market.  Worse, when I &quot;opt out&quot;, my patient gets no payment of any kind from Medicare, not even the amount they would have paid them had I not opted out. So the U.S. government, which taxed this beneficiary for support of Medicare is robbing the patient of his benefit, and is severely penalizing his freedom of choice.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>7:58/ 10:42;</p><p>No they won&#8217;t. This is already happening in hospitals with specialists who have gotten tired of being stiffed nearly every time they are called to consult in the hospital or by the ER. That is what is driving these doctors to affiliate with surgery centers and specialty hospitals that don&#8217;t run emergency rooms.</p><p>You are whistling in the dark with your ideas that &#8220;there will always be people who will be willing to do that kind of work.&#8221; You indulge yourself in your own illusion that because things have worked so far that they will always work out (well even). There are minimum standards that doctors and caregivers have to meet, and expecting availability at sweatshop prices isn&#8217;t going to work.</p><p>Doctors don&#8217;t appear to fill every void as if by magic, even from India and Nigeria.</p><p>Accepting insurance is optional, but few patients with insurance will choose to go out of plan, even if they express a preference for an out-of-plan doctor. If there were such a thing as accountancy insurance, I am sure the same would apply there. Most patients with insurance see coverage not merely as indemnity but as an entitlement to not have any concern about costs or payment. Insurance companies sell their plans that way: go anywhere you want, no worries.</p><p>As for Medicare, the other poster is right. To have hospital privileges (and even a state license in some states) you have to participate with Medicare.<br />No, i don&#8217;t have to take assignment, but for hospital physicians, that isn&#8217;t always an option that allows a viable practice. Sure, you can try. You will go bankrupt.</p><p>With Medicare, I am not allowed to offer some of my services at the allowable rate but not others, even if those are market-competitive rates. I have to &#8220;opt-out&#8221; by written contract with that patient and by law, if I do so, I am also required to opt out with every patient who has Medicare for two years following. That is if I provide even one service to one patient. I am not allowed to price to my market.  Worse, when I &#8220;opt out&#8221;, my patient gets no payment of any kind from Medicare, not even the amount they would have paid them had I not opted out. So the U.S. government, which taxed this beneficiary for support of Medicare is robbing the patient of his benefit, and is severely penalizing his freedom of choice.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86892</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:18:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86892</guid> <description>Let me explain how Medicare participation works, because you are clueless about it. This has nothing to do with commercial insurances - another issue entirely. I have 3 choices when it comes to Medicare. I can participate and accept what they allow - they pay 80%, and the patient pays the rest (or their secondary). I can go non-par and accept or not accept assignment - my choice - but I get paid less, and the check goes to the patient, who I then have to bill - not a great choice when you&#039;re caring for hospitalized patients, because you can&#039;t bill prior to services rendered in the hospital. Or I can drop out entirely. Any Medicare patient I care for has to have a prearranged contract signed, and not under emergency circumstances, so it can&#039;t be done for hospitalized patients. I can&#039;t refer the patient to a lab or to a doc who is in the system - that&#039;s the law. And to have hospital privileges, I have to take Medicare. So what you suggest by docs not taking Medicare leaves all Medicare patients without doctors, especially in the hospital. Sure, it&#039;s our choice, but I can&#039;t wait to hear you screaming about lack of access when we all do drop out. Do you get it now? Uncle Sam has us by the balls. This is socialized medicine at it&#039;s best.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me explain how Medicare participation works, because you are clueless about it. This has nothing to do with commercial insurances &#8211; another issue entirely. I have 3 choices when it comes to Medicare. I can participate and accept what they allow &#8211; they pay 80%, and the patient pays the rest (or their secondary). I can go non-par and accept or not accept assignment &#8211; my choice &#8211; but I get paid less, and the check goes to the patient, who I then have to bill &#8211; not a great choice when you&#8217;re caring for hospitalized patients, because you can&#8217;t bill prior to services rendered in the hospital. Or I can drop out entirely. Any Medicare patient I care for has to have a prearranged contract signed, and not under emergency circumstances, so it can&#8217;t be done for hospitalized patients. I can&#8217;t refer the patient to a lab or to a doc who is in the system &#8211; that&#8217;s the law. And to have hospital privileges, I have to take Medicare. So what you suggest by docs not taking Medicare leaves all Medicare patients without doctors, especially in the hospital. Sure, it&#8217;s our choice, but I can&#8217;t wait to hear you screaming about lack of access when we all do drop out. Do you get it now? Uncle Sam has us by the balls. This is socialized medicine at it&#8217;s best.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86891</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:58:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86891</guid> <description>Sure they will.  There will always be people willing to do that kind of work, just like there are always lawyers willing to work for low pay at NGOs or the public defender&#039;s office.  Will it be the absolute best care money can buy?  Of course not, but that&#039;s the case now.  If you&#039;re going to argue otherwise to me then you&#039;re just propagating the myth that we are all getting (and should get) the exact same care.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot; Insurance acceptance is certainly optional, in the same way eating is optional.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;People pay lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. all without insurance footing the bill.  None of those are cheap.  The problem is you&#039;ve been stuck in the system so long you don&#039;t know any other way.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure they will.  There will always be people willing to do that kind of work, just like there are always lawyers willing to work for low pay at NGOs or the public defender&#8217;s office.  Will it be the absolute best care money can buy?  Of course not, but that&#8217;s the case now.  If you&#8217;re going to argue otherwise to me then you&#8217;re just propagating the myth that we are all getting (and should get) the exact same care.</p><p>&#8221; Insurance acceptance is certainly optional, in the same way eating is optional.&#8221;</p><p>People pay lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. all without insurance footing the bill.  None of those are cheap.  The problem is you&#8217;ve been stuck in the system so long you don&#8217;t know any other way.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86890</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:08:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86890</guid> <description>Anon 10:42,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Try to understand something. Medicare patients will receive NO HOSPITAL CARE when docs drop out of the system. If that&#039;s what you&#039;d like, then fine. But when you are the Medicare patient in shock and on a vent, and there&#039;s no one to take care of you, I wish you luck. And, by law, you&#039;ll have to be on Medicare.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon 10:42,</p><p>Try to understand something. Medicare patients will receive NO HOSPITAL CARE when docs drop out of the system. If that&#8217;s what you&#8217;d like, then fine. But when you are the Medicare patient in shock and on a vent, and there&#8217;s no one to take care of you, I wish you luck. And, by law, you&#8217;ll have to be on Medicare.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86887</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 05:02:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86887</guid> <description>10:42, you are beyond clueless and tiresome. Insurance acceptance is certainly optional, in the same way eating is optional. Some patients will pay cash for the care they want, but not many. So you could go after those, and just starve, that is a choice.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t see where there is an argument for free stuff, only the argument that if payers want doctors to buy expensive stuff, then they should be willing to pay for that stuff, or else be content with the stuff they are paying for now. And when the trend is to pay less, and certainly not more, don&#039;t expect doctors to willingly embrace expensive technologies that don&#039;t offer any benefit to those bearing the costs. Why that is so hard to fathom is difficult to understand; people scream bloody murder when their taxes go up without receiving improved services so why should this be any different? If patients really believe safety is improved by having EMRs, then vote with your wallets and pay for them.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>10:42, you are beyond clueless and tiresome. Insurance acceptance is certainly optional, in the same way eating is optional. Some patients will pay cash for the care they want, but not many. So you could go after those, and just starve, that is a choice.</p><p>I don&#8217;t see where there is an argument for free stuff, only the argument that if payers want doctors to buy expensive stuff, then they should be willing to pay for that stuff, or else be content with the stuff they are paying for now. And when the trend is to pay less, and certainly not more, don&#8217;t expect doctors to willingly embrace expensive technologies that don&#8217;t offer any benefit to those bearing the costs. Why that is so hard to fathom is difficult to understand; people scream bloody murder when their taxes go up without receiving improved services so why should this be any different? If patients really believe safety is improved by having EMRs, then vote with your wallets and pay for them.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86886</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 04:23:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86886</guid> <description>I think the govt can help reduce overall healthcare costs by getting behind a universal eMR system. It would provide better continuity of care and reduce redundant work ups, especially for the pts with no stable PCP and float between EDs. If someone would crunch the numbers, it might come out in the govts best interest to help organize a universal eMR.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the govt can help reduce overall healthcare costs by getting behind a universal eMR system. It would provide better continuity of care and reduce redundant work ups, especially for the pts with no stable PCP and float between EDs. If someone would crunch the numbers, it might come out in the govts best interest to help organize a universal eMR.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86881</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:42:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86881</guid> <description>So again, it comes back to YOUR choices.  You have choices.  You&#039;ve always had choices.  You had a choice in medical school to pick your specialty, one you apparently didn&#039;t investigate very well.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You have a choice to spend more of your time lobbying your representatives for a better way of paying you, something you&#039;re either not doing enough, or not doing very effectively.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And you&#039;ve got a choice to do something different with your life.  Unless you were practicing medicine in the 60s you knew, or should have known, the deal when you signed up to get paid by the government.  Your predecessors made this deal with the devil, and you chose to follow in their footsteps.  And now all you do is bitch about the deal you cut.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Man up and do something besides bitch or get out of it.  Begging for more free stuff from the government like Kevin is doing won&#039;t get you far.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So again, it comes back to YOUR choices.  You have choices.  You&#8217;ve always had choices.  You had a choice in medical school to pick your specialty, one you apparently didn&#8217;t investigate very well.</p><p>You have a choice to spend more of your time lobbying your representatives for a better way of paying you, something you&#8217;re either not doing enough, or not doing very effectively.</p><p>And you&#8217;ve got a choice to do something different with your life.  Unless you were practicing medicine in the 60s you knew, or should have known, the deal when you signed up to get paid by the government.  Your predecessors made this deal with the devil, and you chose to follow in their footsteps.  And now all you do is bitch about the deal you cut.</p><p>Man up and do something besides bitch or get out of it.  Begging for more free stuff from the government like Kevin is doing won&#8217;t get you far.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86879</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:22:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86879</guid> <description>Anon 6:22, what you don&#039;t understand is the fact that when I take care of patients with Medicare in the hospital, I HAVE TO PARTICIPATE!!!!! Get it? I otherwise would be providing care for free. While I could go non-par with Medicare, I would only be allowed to receive 80% of the 95% Medicare allows - and the check goes to the patient!!!!! So - I HAVE NO CHOICE,and as a physician who practices critical care medicine, that specialty is not exactly an outpatient one...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon 6:22, what you don&#8217;t understand is the fact that when I take care of patients with Medicare in the hospital, I HAVE TO PARTICIPATE!!!!! Get it? I otherwise would be providing care for free. While I could go non-par with Medicare, I would only be allowed to receive 80% of the 95% Medicare allows &#8211; and the check goes to the patient!!!!! So &#8211; I HAVE NO CHOICE,and as a physician who practices critical care medicine, that specialty is not exactly an outpatient one&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86877</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:22:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86877</guid> <description>Who told you to sign up for Medicare?  You sign their contract to take their money.  You know what it entails or if you don&#039;t you should read the contracts you sign closer.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who told you to sign up for Medicare?  You sign their contract to take their money.  You know what it entails or if you don&#8217;t you should read the contracts you sign closer.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86875</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:30:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/07/electronic-records-and-economic-sense.html#comment-86875</guid> <description>Kevin,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You ever notice that there are people who comment on this blog who don&#039;t understand that if the government mandates something like EMR, Uncle Sam should pay for it? Why should docs lose money implementing a system that hasn&#039;t proven itself to work?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And these same writers think we willingly don&#039;t want to be part of the free market. Geez, if only Medicare would allow me to take care of elderly patients outside &quot;the system&quot;....</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p><p>You ever notice that there are people who comment on this blog who don&#8217;t understand that if the government mandates something like EMR, Uncle Sam should pay for it? Why should docs lose money implementing a system that hasn&#8217;t proven itself to work?</p><p>And these same writers think we willingly don&#8217;t want to be part of the free market. Geez, if only Medicare would allow me to take care of elderly patients outside &#8220;the system&#8221;&#8230;.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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