Comments on: The opportunity cost of medical school http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html medical blog Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:18:41 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86301 Anonymous Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:24:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86301 What does insurance profitability have to do with the opportunity cost of medical school? What does insurance profitability have to do with the opportunity cost of medical school?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86297 Anonymous Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:56:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86297 Insurers were really profitable in 1994. How come you don't cite those statistics when arguing those? Insurers were really profitable in 1994. How come you don’t cite those statistics when arguing those?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86289 Anonymous Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:27:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86289 The article was in either NEJM or JAMA in 1994.<br/><br/>The DOL talks about salary it is not talking about opportunity cost. The article was in either NEJM or JAMA in 1994.

The DOL talks about salary it is not talking about opportunity cost.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86230 Anonymous Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:24:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86230 "make about as much as specialty physicians, and primary care physicians come in last."<br/><br/>This claim is wrong according to the DOL. Got a link?<br/><br/>"I see your words, but I see no facts."<br/><br/>You need sources to tell you that your job isn't as dangerous as a number of jobs in construction, for example? Really? <br/><br/>You guys claim that you're all about to go bankrupt by liability. Surely you know the percentage? Or maybe it's so small and so anecdotal that you have literally no clue yet you just whine about it constantly?<br/><br/>I'm guessing it's choice #2. “make about as much as specialty physicians, and primary care physicians come in last.”

This claim is wrong according to the DOL. Got a link?

“I see your words, but I see no facts.”

You need sources to tell you that your job isn’t as dangerous as a number of jobs in construction, for example? Really?

You guys claim that you’re all about to go bankrupt by liability. Surely you know the percentage? Or maybe it’s so small and so anecdotal that you have literally no clue yet you just whine about it constantly?

I’m guessing it’s choice #2.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86208 Anonymous Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:11:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86208 When including the opportunity cost, earnings of MBA's outstrip all physicians. Lawyers make about as much as specialty physicians, and primary care physicians come in last. The numbers were worked out in the mid-1990's, it was either NEJM or JAMA. When including the opportunity cost, earnings of MBA’s outstrip all physicians. Lawyers make about as much as specialty physicians, and primary care physicians come in last. The numbers were worked out in the mid-1990’s, it was either NEJM or JAMA.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86169 Anonymous Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:58:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86169 "There are a hundred jobs just as arduous, many with a much higher death rate, than physicians. And they make less than 1/2 of the average physician. What liability risk? How many physicians actually end up bankrupt as a result of the "liability risk"? 1%? 1/2 of 1%? Do you even know?"<br/><br/>I see your words, but I see no facts. Come back when you have them. Til then, I will feel free to dismiss your remarks as ravings. “There are a hundred jobs just as arduous, many with a much higher death rate, than physicians. And they make less than 1/2 of the average physician. What liability risk? How many physicians actually end up bankrupt as a result of the “liability risk”? 1%? 1/2 of 1%? Do you even know?”

I see your words, but I see no facts. Come back when you have them. Til then, I will feel free to dismiss your remarks as ravings.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86161 Anonymous Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:57:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86161 " but if you can't keep up with the dentists, laywers, accountants, etc. why go to medical school?"<br/><br/>The problem is that for all your bitching on average you outstrip every one of those professions by 50%.<br/><br/>"some physicians might argue that 4x net worth earning potential is poor compensation for the liability risk and general arduousness of an entire career working in medicine. "<br/><br/>There are a hundred jobs just as arduous, many with a much higher death rate, than physicians. And they make less than 1/2 of the average physician. What liability risk? How many physicians actually end up bankrupt as a result of the "liability risk"? 1%? 1/2 of 1%? Do you even know? ” but if you can’t keep up with the dentists, laywers, accountants, etc. why go to medical school?”

The problem is that for all your bitching on average you outstrip every one of those professions by 50%.

“some physicians might argue that 4x net worth earning potential is poor compensation for the liability risk and general arduousness of an entire career working in medicine. “

There are a hundred jobs just as arduous, many with a much higher death rate, than physicians. And they make less than 1/2 of the average physician. What liability risk? How many physicians actually end up bankrupt as a result of the “liability risk”? 1%? 1/2 of 1%? Do you even know?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86153 Anonymous Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:52:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86153 It's more than the net worth. It has to to with respect, place in society, and lifestyle. Physicians consider themselves professsionals. Even if going into medicine is not financially motivated, many physicians expect that if they work hard and help people that they will be able to live in a good neighborhood, send their kids to good schools and colleges and maybe take a vacation once in a while. Even if the net worth is 4 times greater, it doesn't match the cost of the neighborhood, schools, etc. <br/>Thus, the public may have no tolerance when physicians whine about money, but if you can't keep up with the dentists, laywers, accountants, etc. why go to medical school? The publich should listen to the whining, specifically for primary care. Fewer than half the interns starting their family practice residencies this July will be US medical grads. This is not to disparage some fine medical schools in other countries. But whil John and Jane Q Public may not want to hear physicians whining about reimbursement, they need to realize that in about 5-10 years, their primary care physician (if they use health insurance to pay for health care) will be a non-US medical graduate. It’s more than the net worth. It has to to with respect, place in society, and lifestyle. Physicians consider themselves professsionals. Even if going into medicine is not financially motivated, many physicians expect that if they work hard and help people that they will be able to live in a good neighborhood, send their kids to good schools and colleges and maybe take a vacation once in a while. Even if the net worth is 4 times greater, it doesn’t match the cost of the neighborhood, schools, etc.
Thus, the public may have no tolerance when physicians whine about money, but if you can’t keep up with the dentists, laywers, accountants, etc. why go to medical school? The publich should listen to the whining, specifically for primary care. Fewer than half the interns starting their family practice residencies this July will be US medical grads. This is not to disparage some fine medical schools in other countries. But whil John and Jane Q Public may not want to hear physicians whining about reimbursement, they need to realize that in about 5-10 years, their primary care physician (if they use health insurance to pay for health care) will be a non-US medical graduate.

]]> By: Supremacy Claus http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86149 Supremacy Claus Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:30:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86149 I take heating and air conditioning in high school. At 19, I have people chasing me, and offering me $5000 on the spot to come with them rather than the other guy chasing me. <br/><br/>I know very little about this business, but at 19, I am making $50K. Assuming no raise, I have made $500K by age 30, and lived a comfortable life. <br/><br/>Meanwhile, the doc owes $150K for college, and $250K for med school. He starts making $50K at age 26. Prior to that age, he lives like a destitute pig. <br/><br/>So at age 30, I am ahead by $500K. Doc is still in the hole for $400K and has made $200K. I am $700K ahead. I have earned every penny, of course. <br/><br/>We both go into private practice at 30. He starts netting $500K a year. With his intelligence and energy, in the heating and A/C business, I know enough to fit skyscrapers and to have my own contracting business. What is the upper limit on that? I have to deal with the Mob, which is a reasonable, helpful set of people, once paid off. Doc has to deal with HMO's and the FBI backing up vans for his records because he upcoded a controversial procedure. They are nuts. <br/><br/>I am also helping 1000's of people a year to stay healthy, just like the doc. I take heating and air conditioning in high school. At 19, I have people chasing me, and offering me $5000 on the spot to come with them rather than the other guy chasing me.

I know very little about this business, but at 19, I am making $50K. Assuming no raise, I have made $500K by age 30, and lived a comfortable life.

Meanwhile, the doc owes $150K for college, and $250K for med school. He starts making $50K at age 26. Prior to that age, he lives like a destitute pig.

So at age 30, I am ahead by $500K. Doc is still in the hole for $400K and has made $200K. I am $700K ahead. I have earned every penny, of course.

We both go into private practice at 30. He starts netting $500K a year. With his intelligence and energy, in the heating and A/C business, I know enough to fit skyscrapers and to have my own contracting business. What is the upper limit on that? I have to deal with the Mob, which is a reasonable, helpful set of people, once paid off. Doc has to deal with HMO’s and the FBI backing up vans for his records because he upcoded a controversial procedure. They are nuts.

I am also helping 1000’s of people a year to stay healthy, just like the doc.

]]> By: Theresa http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2008/06/opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html/comment-page-1#comment-86135 Theresa Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:16:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2008/06/the-opportunity-cost-of-medical-school.html#comment-86135 Thanks for the link, Kevin.<br/><br/>In response to Anonymous #1, I agree that the analysis I presented was not farsighted. In fact, it was <b>specifically limited to the 8-year period</b> of my training. It was not meant to represent a lifetime's earning potential. You can only calculate opportunity cost--meaningfully--over a fixed term.<br/><br/>As for your net worth calculations, even if we accept your numbers, some physicians might argue that 4x net worth earning potential is poor compensation for the liability risk and general arduousness of an entire career working in medicine. For myself, I haven't decided on this issue but it should remain an open question.<br/><br/>In response to both Anonymous #1 and #2--future posts will address past and current income scenarios, net worth, and spending patterns. Hopefully this will fill in some of the questions remaining in your minds. Thanks for the link, Kevin.

In response to Anonymous #1, I agree that the analysis I presented was not farsighted. In fact, it was specifically limited to the 8-year period of my training. It was not meant to represent a lifetime’s earning potential. You can only calculate opportunity cost–meaningfully–over a fixed term.

As for your net worth calculations, even if we accept your numbers, some physicians might argue that 4x net worth earning potential is poor compensation for the liability risk and general arduousness of an entire career working in medicine. For myself, I haven’t decided on this issue but it should remain an open question.

In response to both Anonymous #1 and #2–future posts will address past and current income scenarios, net worth, and spending patterns. Hopefully this will fill in some of the questions remaining in your minds.

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