Leonard Kreisler: “While the first two years at Touro University Nevada’s School of Osteopathic Medicine may look like the University of Nevada School of Medicine’s curricula, I would challenge his medical students to take the first part of the national board exams (which M.D. students are required to take by most allopathic schools — osteopathic students don’t need to take national or state board exams in Nevada). Dr. Forman knows darn well that the second two years (usually referred to as clinical teaching years) are very thin for D.O. students.”
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{ 7 comments }
This is part of a larger, long discussed debate about whether there should be two physician degrees. I personally don’t see the point, but to each his own.
It’s incorrect to say that DO’s do not have to take national licensing exams. All DO schools require passing scores on step I and II of the COMLEX (the USMLE for DO’s) for graduation. Residencies require DO’s to pass Step III before continuing on to PGY 2. Nevada may not require these licensing exams, but a DO cannot be in a position post graduation and residency to apply for a medical license without passing these exams.
Calling the 3rd and 4th clinical years of DO school “thin” may be somewhat accurate if you mean they are usually at community based hospitals, often without residency programs, while MD clinical years may be at larger academic powerhouse hospitals. But how much of a benefit is this? The students at the large hospital get to see the back of their intern’s white coat while 10 people surround a patient getting an abscess drained. The community hospital based students get to drain the abscess. The small hospital students may miss that 1 in a million guillain bare pt, but that’s not what a 3rd year student needs to see, they need the bread and butter basics to prepare them for residency.
As a DO, I’ve been dismissed as “not MD” by people whose degree wasn’t in the Roman alphabet.
When Richard Jadick DO got his Bronze Star and Combat V for all the lives he saved in the Second Battle of Fallujah, Newsweek titled their cover “Hero MD”. So it’s not just the foreigners.
So ordinarily I’d just dismiss these clowns, and that includes the academic clowns, who can be some of the worst.
The guy may have a point, though, about the rapid expansion of the osteopathic programs, and whether they can offer a good academic experience. That is a fair question. I know it’s been asked a lot in osteopathic circles.
I agree with the first poster, just because a rotation is done in an ivory tower, does not mean the experience is better. No residents around can be a big plus. As a 3rd and 4th year student I had done intubations, spinal taps, epidurals, delivered babies, central lines, reduced some fractures. I even did a thoracotomy. That never ever happens in the ivory tower. He puts too much stock in the allopathic residency path as well, I scored over 90 percent on every orthopedic intraining exam that is taken by all DO and MD residents, so they must be doing something right.
Anon 1:06 PM it’s been a while for me. I was concerned about what appears to be a really rapid increase in programs and dilution of teaching resources.
Do you feel the concern is overblown? You’re closer to the schools than I am these days.
All that being said, as anon 11:13 AM suggested:
“…..This is part of a larger, long discussed debate about whether there should be two physician degrees. I personally don’t see the point, but to each his own…..”
I’m a DO. My training was osteopathic up to the DO rotating internship, then allopathic to two residencies and a fellowship, and allopathic Board-certification. But the more I do this, the more I’m convinced there’s an advantage to having two competing organizations that offer training up to unrestricted licensure.
Sick and tired of JCAHO? You can get your hospital accredited by the American Osteopathic Association, and the result is the same as far as recognition by insurers and state entities.
I describe my background only to point out I’m not saying this as a cheerleader for the AOA. I’m not a member. I just like the idea of an alternative to the AMA, JCAHO, etc.
One of the elite level 1 trauma centers in this country and no I won’t name it, shunned JCAHO about 7-8 years ago and is no AOA certified. Out of nearly 200 docs on staff only 5 are DOs. They saw it as a huge advantage to tell JCAHO to stick it.
Exactly. Actually, I wonder why more hospitals and other affected entities are not doing the same. I think they get the idea that they *HAVE* to be certified by JCAHO and that’s just not the case. Sooner or later as JCAHO’s arrogance grows, there will be a tipping point.
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