What good is universal coverage if no physicians exist to provide the care?

Oh wow! Just peachy. I didn’t realize it would be so simple. I’m casting my vote for Hilary now.

” As it stands today, in the current semi-socialized medicare system, that reimbursement has fallen steadily since 1993 (inflation adjusted). Even still, those with a choice and opportunity for higher reimbursement elsewhere, do not accept it.”

And still you’re the highest paid of any profession in the world. And you would almost certainly be under a universal healthcare system.

The pie will not be fixed, the pie will increase every year until the baby boomers start to decline.

Anon 7:35, where do you get the idea that physicians in (the USA, I’m guessing you are talking about) are the highest paid profession in the world? That just isn’t true. Plenty of other occupations earn better, including lawyers who do corporate and finance work, bankers, dentists, fast food franchise restaurant owners, and major-league sports players (make far more).

So I’m calling you out as a liar. Worse, you completely ignore the fact that medicine is the most costly field to enter in terms of lost opportunity to earn and total cost of education.

If you think an average figure of attending physician income cited by the Dept. of Labor is a truthful representation of the return on a medical career, then you are knowingly misusing a flawed statistic. Nice try, but you aren’t believable.

“If you think an average figure of attending physician income cited by the Dept. of Labor is a truthful representation of the return on a medical career, then you are knowingly misusing a flawed statistic. Nice try, but you aren’t believable.”

If the Dept. of Labor’s avg. salary statistics don’t satisfy you, how did you come to your conclusions? What’s your source?

Why do you get to choose the highest paid subsets of certain professions to contrast the average salary of all physicians?

If you’re going to call me a liar, I hope you have a source to back up your own claims. Since the US Dept. of Labor figures are “lies”.

So the demand will increase, the pie will get bigger, and an overwhelming number of taxpayers will soon leave the job market (and therefore pay significantly less tax.)

90 % marginal tax rate here we come! Yeah Hillary!

Anon, 3:06:

Some of the salaries, I agree with you, and I don’t think doctors are the highest paying profession (hedge fund managers, etc. take home quite a bit of money as well). But some of the careers you listed aren’t something the average person can really hope for without luck/significant athletic talent. With really hard work, one would be more likely to get into medical school than say, drafted for a professional sport (in my opinion). Doctors do generally have a nice salary (above what the average American makes, although how above isn’t certain in the future) and it is a profession more people can hope to reach and train to get into. This is just my opinion, and I hope it makes sense.

Doctors do have a nice salary, but that still has to be considered with stress (including malpractice based stress) and student debt, plus the amount of time they are still in school while other professions are climbing the career ladder. I don’t think they are the highest paid profession in the world, possibly more likely the highest paid profession the average Joe can hope to attain (but I’m still not sure about that, I don’t have figures).

This is probably going to be misinterpreted and attacked, but I’m going to say it anyway: neither the average person nor the slightly above average person could possibly hope to successfully complete training in an American medical school and residency.

Oops, Scalpel, sorry. Another criticism would be that doctors, in the past anyway, seem to have more security in their salaries, more so than a lawyer or business professional would. The other careers may be seen as more risky, but you know, that is why medical school is so hard to get into and one reason medical school costs a lot. Education today, regardless of major, is really a big, somewhat risky investment.

And I do get a bit tired of people saying that it is simply a “personal choice” and to deal with it when tuition inflation is on par with that of healthcare (and no, I don’t support the government paying for everyone’s tuition) ; Scalpel is right, it does take someone “above average” to get through everything (how they reach an above average level, we may disagree on, but this should include the academic and psychological stress the field involves).

I don’t believe for a second that half of these doctors/medical students wouldn’t be successful in other fields, but I suppose the advice for half of the future doctors would be to stop whining about it, and seek a business degree with $20,000 worth or debt instead (compared to a projected $150-200,000 for medical school), the other half of medical students can always just specialize to make their money or join those “boutique” practices and deal with being called immoral/greedy. Of course, standards won’t have to be lowered, and we can pump in foreign medical graduates for PCP, etc., except that the UK and Europe may be a bigger lure for them in the future (falling dollar, possible adoption of standards the other countries already have-which may harm the old US edge, etc.).

I’ll stop ranting about student debt now (I acknowledge I’m prone to ranting about it), but I believe it should factor in when looking at compensation, along with time spent seeking a degree. Just my opinion though; as I see these UHC discussions taking on the classic “eating your cake and having it too” proverb without being completely realistic.

I would disagree. While one must have some basic intelligence, there is no profession that one cannot attain. I’m excepting those where particular athletic prowess is required, of course.

Hello,
I just practiced in Australia for a year. They don’t have socialized medicine,just medicare for all. You could call it socialized insurance. Docs pay less than $9000 per year for a top-notch medical education. The residents I worked with were phenomenal. And the clincher – the salary for working in the public hospital system was $247,000 per year, with the tax rate around 40% for employees in the public system. My take home pay there was higher than my gross salary here(Taxes are reduced for Australian public sector doctors as a retention bonus because you can go into private practice and make a lot more money) And there is a standard public doc benefit of 5 weeks vacation and 5 weeks conference time per year. And a $25,000 conference budget per year (above salary). And a fantastic, rewarding medical system with same meds, technology as the US. Except we actually had time to practice the way you are supposed to – you know, calling the family,researching their illness, calling other doctors, reading old charts, spending more time with the patient. Resulting in better care. It’s a great system. It costs the australian government only 9% of GDP for all citizens(versus 14% of GDP here for all citizens, including the ones with no insurance). It’s easy to open a private practice in any town or neighborhood there, too, since everyone on your block has insurance and you don’t need staff to do lots of insurance paperwork. As a doctor it was the most rewarding time of my career. I was treating rich, poor and working class patients who were all healthier and happier and much more respectful of doctors and I never had to tell a patient that they couldn’t afford my care…So, American doctors have been brainwashed just as much everyone else, by the corporate interests who are profiting off of the human suffering of the current system.