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	<title>Comments on: Retail clinics: 99.15% proper treatment rate?</title>
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	<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html</link>
	<description>medical blog</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79413</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79413</guid>
		<description>anon 12:20, the issue is multifactorial. There is no &quot;front&quot; to drop. It&#039;s just a bad idea all around. But if it makes you more comfortable to just pigeonhole physicians as greedy and uninterested in good care, than you have my permission to address the ONLY issue you understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anon 12:20, the issue is multifactorial. There is no &#8220;front&#8221; to drop. It&#8217;s just a bad idea all around. But if it makes you more comfortable to just pigeonhole physicians as greedy and uninterested in good care, than you have my permission to address the ONLY issue you understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79375</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79375</guid>
		<description>Mike:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The issue here is economics and economics only.  It has squat to do with patient care.  So, why not drop that front when it comes to this issue and instead objectively discuss  how the sole issue here is providers continuing to want the easy cases?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike:</p>
<p>The issue here is economics and economics only.  It has squat to do with patient care.  So, why not drop that front when it comes to this issue and instead objectively discuss  how the sole issue here is providers continuing to want the easy cases?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79302</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79302</guid>
		<description>I would love it if the Economics professors here could explain to me how one is supposed to know if they should go to an NP or an MD??? And without the current system of training, which angers you so much, how you expect a core of higher competency than NP&#039;s, which should then just &quot;wait aorund&quot; until you decide you are sick enough to come in. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You make no sense.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And again, the retail clinic (in small rural areas) probably just hurts the business of those MD&#039;s, which you will only need a small percentage of the time, but which you expect to just sit around making no money until YOU decide to waltz over there. Do you see that such an idea is ludicrous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love it if the Economics professors here could explain to me how one is supposed to know if they should go to an NP or an MD??? And without the current system of training, which angers you so much, how you expect a core of higher competency than NP&#8217;s, which should then just &#8220;wait aorund&#8221; until you decide you are sick enough to come in. </p>
<p>You make no sense.</p>
<p>And again, the retail clinic (in small rural areas) probably just hurts the business of those MD&#8217;s, which you will only need a small percentage of the time, but which you expect to just sit around making no money until YOU decide to waltz over there. Do you see that such an idea is ludicrous.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79263</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79263</guid>
		<description>&quot;anybody who uses terms like &quot;oligopolist&quot; and &quot;plebeian&quot; in the 21st century is just a f-ing nutjob.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So says the &quot;f-ing nutjob&quot; that is an oligpolist and proponent for the current medical feudal system.  After all, we have to ensure that the medical lords continue to take their cut of the share of the work done competently by others.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The choice that you make for yourself and your family grants you zero authority to make the same choices for others and their families.  It also grants you zero authority to pick my pockets to enrich yourself secondary to promoting a system that forces the equivalent of a mandated Yugo at Lexus prices that is paid through the extortion of the work product of the productive.  I understand that the Dons want their cut of the pie by retaining supremacy over the system, but the openly anti-competitive nature of such a move is one that would have made Standard Oil proud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;anybody who uses terms like &#8220;oligopolist&#8221; and &#8220;plebeian&#8221; in the 21st century is just a f-ing nutjob.&#8221;</p>
<p>So says the &#8220;f-ing nutjob&#8221; that is an oligpolist and proponent for the current medical feudal system.  After all, we have to ensure that the medical lords continue to take their cut of the share of the work done competently by others.</p>
<p>The choice that you make for yourself and your family grants you zero authority to make the same choices for others and their families.  It also grants you zero authority to pick my pockets to enrich yourself secondary to promoting a system that forces the equivalent of a mandated Yugo at Lexus prices that is paid through the extortion of the work product of the productive.  I understand that the Dons want their cut of the pie by retaining supremacy over the system, but the openly anti-competitive nature of such a move is one that would have made Standard Oil proud.</p>
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		<title>By: Happyman</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79262</link>
		<dc:creator>Happyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79262</guid>
		<description>anybody who uses terms like &quot;oligopolist&quot; and &quot;plebeian&quot; in the 21st century is just a f-ing nutjob.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;anyway, as far as hurting the allopath position, i think the minute clinics will HELP the allopath position while hurting the healthcare system &amp; insurers in general: everyone with anything serious e.g. CHF exacerbation, COPD exacerbation, uncontrolled diabetes, pneumonia, asthma, stroke, MI, etc. will wind up in an ER after a course of augmentin or zithromax, &amp; be told to follow-up with a DOCTOR instead of a minute-clinic.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;as a doctor who works with NPs every day, I can say that some are great as an assistant, some suck, but ALL are a far cry from a physician, &amp; i&#039;d never use one as a primary care &quot;provider&quot; for myself or my family without real supervision from someone with the training &amp; experience (&amp; intelligence) of a physician.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anybody who uses terms like &#8220;oligopolist&#8221; and &#8220;plebeian&#8221; in the 21st century is just a f-ing nutjob.</p>
<p>anyway, as far as hurting the allopath position, i think the minute clinics will HELP the allopath position while hurting the healthcare system &#038; insurers in general: everyone with anything serious e.g. CHF exacerbation, COPD exacerbation, uncontrolled diabetes, pneumonia, asthma, stroke, MI, etc. will wind up in an ER after a course of augmentin or zithromax, &#038; be told to follow-up with a DOCTOR instead of a minute-clinic.</p>
<p>as a doctor who works with NPs every day, I can say that some are great as an assistant, some suck, but ALL are a far cry from a physician, &#038; i&#8217;d never use one as a primary care &#8220;provider&#8221; for myself or my family without real supervision from someone with the training &#038; experience (&#038; intelligence) of a physician.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79258</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79258</guid>
		<description>As long as I have the volitional choice to see whatever practitioner I wish to see for whatever reason I wish to see him/her then some segment of choice has been returned to me - the health care consumer.  Fire me, the paying customer, if you wish.  Just don&#039;t impede my ability to obtain healthcare from whatever provider I choose to enter into such a business relationship with (including trying to limit their scope of practice to protect your fiefdom).  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If retail clinics present no real threat to the primary care MD, then why the animosity and directed oligopolistic targeting of them by the AMA?  Methinks that there is much more to this story in regards to the actions of organized medicine when it comes to protecting its turf and the basis of such action(s) having nothing to do with patient safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as I have the volitional choice to see whatever practitioner I wish to see for whatever reason I wish to see him/her then some segment of choice has been returned to me &#8211; the health care consumer.  Fire me, the paying customer, if you wish.  Just don&#8217;t impede my ability to obtain healthcare from whatever provider I choose to enter into such a business relationship with (including trying to limit their scope of practice to protect your fiefdom).  </p>
<p>If retail clinics present no real threat to the primary care MD, then why the animosity and directed oligopolistic targeting of them by the AMA?  Methinks that there is much more to this story in regards to the actions of organized medicine when it comes to protecting its turf and the basis of such action(s) having nothing to do with patient safety.</p>
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		<title>By: Happyman</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79257</link>
		<dc:creator>Happyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79257</guid>
		<description>&quot;much that it would first do within its own ranks to even make a prima fascie case for such a contention...&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;so don&#039;t go to an allopath, go see an NP or PA - believe me, it&#039;s not making the primary care MD worse off to lose your business - on the contrary you seem like the typical patient i&#039;d fire. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;good luck with your cold - if you get really sick, i&#039;d be really curious if you stick to avoiding the criminal allopaths you so easily denigrate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;much that it would first do within its own ranks to even make a prima fascie case for such a contention&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>so don&#8217;t go to an allopath, go see an NP or PA &#8211; believe me, it&#8217;s not making the primary care MD worse off to lose your business &#8211; on the contrary you seem like the typical patient i&#8217;d fire. </p>
<p>good luck with your cold &#8211; if you get really sick, i&#8217;d be really curious if you stick to avoiding the criminal allopaths you so easily denigrate.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79252</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79252</guid>
		<description>Why continue with this red herring of &quot;patient advocate&quot; when only the most unthinking will fall for such an intellectually dishonest claim?  If the allopathic organization was truly  about patient protection, then there is much that it would first do within its own ranks to even make a prima fascie case for such a contention.  The reality of the situation is that retail clinics are viewed as both an economic threat and a territorial threat.  One understands the fear from the existing junta in opening up the system even slightly to actually let patients make their own choices.  As more and more come to realize that NPs and PAs are more than capable of the art of diagnosis, the more difficult it will be to continue the existing charade that exists in the healthcare system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why continue with this red herring of &#8220;patient advocate&#8221; when only the most unthinking will fall for such an intellectually dishonest claim?  If the allopathic organization was truly  about patient protection, then there is much that it would first do within its own ranks to even make a prima fascie case for such a contention.  The reality of the situation is that retail clinics are viewed as both an economic threat and a territorial threat.  One understands the fear from the existing junta in opening up the system even slightly to actually let patients make their own choices.  As more and more come to realize that NPs and PAs are more than capable of the art of diagnosis, the more difficult it will be to continue the existing charade that exists in the healthcare system.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79247</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79247</guid>
		<description>Since the &#039;proper&#039; treatment is defined by algorithm, it is no surprize that success rate can be high.  If however one defines success as being correct on subjective matters then certainly it would plummet.  Was that an acute otitis you saw on otoscopy?  There is certainly no post hoc analysis of judgement calls or retrospective comparison with the gold standard of 20/20 hindsight.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The success rate of following an algorithm is not the same as a success rate of real patient outcomes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the &#8216;proper&#8217; treatment is defined by algorithm, it is no surprize that success rate can be high.  If however one defines success as being correct on subjective matters then certainly it would plummet.  Was that an acute otitis you saw on otoscopy?  There is certainly no post hoc analysis of judgement calls or retrospective comparison with the gold standard of 20/20 hindsight.  </p>
<p>The success rate of following an algorithm is not the same as a success rate of real patient outcomes.</p>
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		<title>By: Happyman</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment.html/comment-page-1#comment-79229</link>
		<dc:creator>Happyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/retail-clinics-9915-proper-treatment-rate.html#comment-79229</guid>
		<description>Aside from the STRETCH that NPs &amp; PAs can properly diagnose a URI or ear infection 99% correctly, I don&#039;t see how the minuteclinics are going to solve the problem of the uninsured, as these &quot;minor problems&quot; are not a big expense.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What IS expensive (for everyone) is when the uninsured have a major trauma (eg. MVA), or a heart attack &amp; get admitted for a prolonged hospitalization. then the bill goes unpaid &amp; everyone&#039;s premiums go up.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The miraculous $30 gimme-a-zpak-for-my-cold visit is like pissing in the wind, not to mention the occasional serious problem that is missed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from the STRETCH that NPs &#038; PAs can properly diagnose a URI or ear infection 99% correctly, I don&#8217;t see how the minuteclinics are going to solve the problem of the uninsured, as these &#8220;minor problems&#8221; are not a big expense.  </p>
<p>What IS expensive (for everyone) is when the uninsured have a major trauma (eg. MVA), or a heart attack &#038; get admitted for a prolonged hospitalization. then the bill goes unpaid &#038; everyone&#8217;s premiums go up.</p>
<p>The miraculous $30 gimme-a-zpak-for-my-cold visit is like pissing in the wind, not to mention the occasional serious problem that is missed.</p>
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