Comments on: The Debate Over Physician Salaries Continues http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Dr. Rob Oliverhttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-79030 Dr. Rob Oliver Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:33:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-79030 Thank you for the notice, Kevin!<br/><br/>That little "itemization" was just to give some kind of context to people expenses of my education. I didn't do it to claim poverty, but just to explain what we do give up.<br/><br/>I think I was actually too generous with my estimated hourly wage. I can remember sitting down once during residency and figuring out I was well below minimum wage at the time. This was all just pre "80 hour" work rules, and a lot of my surgery residency was 100-120 hours a week in the hospital with frequent every other night in house call. I can barely remember <b>several years</b> of my life in retrospect. Thank you for the notice, Kevin!

That little “itemization” was just to give some kind of context to people expenses of my education. I didn’t do it to claim poverty, but just to explain what we do give up.

I think I was actually too generous with my estimated hourly wage. I can remember sitting down once during residency and figuring out I was well below minimum wage at the time. This was all just pre “80 hour” work rules, and a lot of my surgery residency was 100-120 hours a week in the hospital with frequent every other night in house call. I can barely remember several years of my life in retrospect.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78859 Anonymous Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:17:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78859 "You also do not order them for your patients own good, so spare us that song and dance. you instead, order them for your own good, and you couldn't care less about the cost of them."<br/><br/>The foul odor from your post permeates the web. Please tell mommy it is time for a diaper change. “You also do not order them for your patients own good, so spare us that song and dance. you instead, order them for your own good, and you couldn’t care less about the cost of them.”

The foul odor from your post permeates the web. Please tell mommy it is time for a diaper change.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78825 Anonymous Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:47:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78825 If you worked so hard to get that degree then why not use it. Yes, MRIs are expensive and so are CTs and many other tests. But, you don't bat an eye over ordering them when all that great education tells you there really isn't a need for them. You also do not order them for your patients own good, so spare us that song and dance. you instead, order them for your own good, and you couldn't care less about the cost of them. If you worked so hard to get that degree then why not use it. Yes, MRIs are expensive and so are CTs and many other tests. But, you don’t bat an eye over ordering them when all that great education tells you there really isn’t a need for them. You also do not order them for your patients own good, so spare us that song and dance. you instead, order them for your own good, and you couldn’t care less about the cost of them.

]]> By: Mikehttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78765 Mike Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:48:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78765 I think the point lost in all of this is that nonphysicians ought to have some repsect for what we are subjected to so we can treat their diseases. You just get all the negative energy on this site. "The do-no-harmers" "Ah, you asked for it" "Near dieties"<br/><br/>The list of expenses and time costs applies to no other field BUT medicine! So save the insults. We really do work pretty hard to get the degree. <br/><br/>But I guess its more fashionable to just berate us for not becoming NP's, PA's, or some cheaper, less educated field where it would have made more economic sense.<br/><br/>It really is a catch 22. I think the point lost in all of this is that nonphysicians ought to have some repsect for what we are subjected to so we can treat their diseases. You just get all the negative energy on this site. “The do-no-harmers” “Ah, you asked for it” “Near dieties”

The list of expenses and time costs applies to no other field BUT medicine! So save the insults. We really do work pretty hard to get the degree.

But I guess its more fashionable to just berate us for not becoming NP’s, PA’s, or some cheaper, less educated field where it would have made more economic sense.

It really is a catch 22.

]]> By: ER doctorhttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78744 ER doctor Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:17:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78744 This only happens because doctors have allowed it to happen, as a group. If doctors (when doctors) decide *enough* things will change...and not a moment sooner. This only happens because doctors have allowed it to happen, as a group. If doctors (when doctors) decide *enough* things will change…and not a moment sooner.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78733 Anonymous Wed, 08 Aug 2007 13:56:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78733 there are probably a good nmber of witch doctores in this country who ALSO dropped in excess of $120k fro undergrad schooling.<br/><br/>The difference is they'll likely make back their investment more quickly as they're not burdened by much overhead, malpractice, government regulations etc. there are probably a good nmber of witch doctores in this country who ALSO dropped in excess of $120k fro undergrad schooling.

The difference is they’ll likely make back their investment more quickly as they’re not burdened by much overhead, malpractice, government regulations etc.

]]> By: johnhttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78724 john Wed, 08 Aug 2007 02:20:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78724 The point is that physician salaries make up 10% of US health care cost, so Medicare/Medicaid or other insurance cuts to physicians barely scratch the surface of fixing the huge and rising cost. The problems are the great drugs that keep you alive and the CT/MRI/labs that help diagnose your sickness. That technology costs a lot of money. <br/><br/><br/>If you'd rather have a witch doctor diagnose your bloody stools it would be cheaper, but somewhat less effective. The point is that physician salaries make up 10% of US health care cost, so Medicare/Medicaid or other insurance cuts to physicians barely scratch the surface of fixing the huge and rising cost. The problems are the great drugs that keep you alive and the CT/MRI/labs that help diagnose your sickness. That technology costs a lot of money.

If you’d rather have a witch doctor diagnose your bloody stools it would be cheaper, but somewhat less effective.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78719 Anonymous Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:24:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78719 So in other words, people are CHOOSING to go to expensive private schools for undergrad and med school. So why should we feel bad for them because of the debt load they have? That's a choice they made. It's not like the cost was hidden. If it didn't translate into additional dollars, whose fault is that?<br/><br/>Physicians have a hard time taking responsibility for their own actions, which is ironic given that they accuse others of that same failing so often. So in other words, people are CHOOSING to go to expensive private schools for undergrad and med school. So why should we feel bad for them because of the debt load they have? That’s a choice they made. It’s not like the cost was hidden. If it didn’t translate into additional dollars, whose fault is that?

Physicians have a hard time taking responsibility for their own actions, which is ironic given that they accuse others of that same failing so often.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78710 Anonymous Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:00:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78710 >>"Where are these people going to college that it costs them $150K for 4 years?"<br/><br/>Where? Everywhere.<br/><br/>Go to Georgetown, or Hopkins, or any of the Ivies, or USC, or Stanford, or Vanderbilt or Tulane, go to any of the small college ivy-equivalents like Middlebury, Bennington, Amherst or Bowdoin, and you can easily drop $150K. That kind of cost is commonplace. For those with their heads in the sand, college educations have easily outpaced inflation for years now. When I finished college, a modest starting job paid about twice the total annual cost of a private university. Now that same kind of job won't even cover the cost of that final year of college.<br/><br/>I am amazed that the four-year medical education is quoted (albeit humorously) at only $85,000. These days, a bargain state university affiliated medical school, of which there are very few remaining, might cost that amount. The rest cost a lot more. Four years of medical school at a typical state university? Figure about $120K; at a private university, twice that. >>”Where are these people going to college that it costs them $150K for 4 years?”

Where? Everywhere.

Go to Georgetown, or Hopkins, or any of the Ivies, or USC, or Stanford, or Vanderbilt or Tulane, go to any of the small college ivy-equivalents like Middlebury, Bennington, Amherst or Bowdoin, and you can easily drop $150K. That kind of cost is commonplace. For those with their heads in the sand, college educations have easily outpaced inflation for years now. When I finished college, a modest starting job paid about twice the total annual cost of a private university. Now that same kind of job won’t even cover the cost of that final year of college.

I am amazed that the four-year medical education is quoted (albeit humorously) at only $85,000. These days, a bargain state university affiliated medical school, of which there are very few remaining, might cost that amount. The rest cost a lot more. Four years of medical school at a typical state university? Figure about $120K; at a private university, twice that.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/08/debate-over-physician-salaries.html#comment-78703 Anonymous Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:54:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/08/the-debate-over-physician-salaries-continues.html#comment-78703 Out of the park? More like three strikes and he is out. Yet again we see the old fallacy of X dollars for cost of training magically equates to Y dollars for after-expense compensation. Complete nonsense. BTW, if you don't like resident compensation rates then change the system. Agitate for a provider tax and take the money and put it towards increasing resident salaries. Out of the park? More like three strikes and he is out. Yet again we see the old fallacy of X dollars for cost of training magically equates to Y dollars for after-expense compensation. Complete nonsense. BTW, if you don’t like resident compensation rates then change the system. Agitate for a provider tax and take the money and put it towards increasing resident salaries.

]]>