Peter Chowka reviews Sicko and wonders if this is the beginning of the end:
Such an overarching theme would be absurdly funny if it weren’t so deadly dangerous”“if Moore were not, in effect, playing with fire. But our society is now teeming with people who are ready to take Moore’s kind of nonsense completely to heart, conditioned and taught as they have been since birth that they have a “right” to everything they think they deserve, just by being here.The education industry, the media, politicians and special interest groups have prepared people to anticipate nothing less than complete accommodation of their needs and wants. And now, “health care as a right” has been added to the growing list of entitlements.
Also, David Hogberg refutes many of Moore’s arguments during his press conference. (via David Catron)
Update:
Reason Magazine with their review, and reinterates a point I’ve been making repeatedly:
Moore is right that the American system is sick””on this, there is bipartisan and public consensus. The United States has the highest per capita health care spending in the world, with comparatively disappointing results. But his radical prescriptions, which include a call for a British-style, single-payer system, will likely have little resonance with viewers. Indeed, according to a recent ABC News/Kaiser Family Health study, insured Americans are overwhelmingly (89 percent) satisfied with their own care, while broadly concerned about rising costs of prescription drugs and critical of the care others receive.
Related posts:
- Sicko: Real health care in Cuba
- Sicko available for free
- Sicko: Is the alternative any better?
- What Michael Moore left out of Sicko
- Government-run health care
- The New Yorker on Sicko
- Why Americans fear radical health care reform
KevinMD.com on Facebook
{ 19 comments }
“The consensus is pretty broad that metropolitan areas should have pretty much uniform police, fire, water, sewer and emergency medical services for all. Public K-12 education is the norm everywhere.”
Education is a poor example; it is not uniform nor equal for all. If you want your kids to go to a good school, you either need to 1) send them to private school or 2) spend extra on housing to move into a good school district.
Education is a very good example. Yes, you can send your kids to private or Catholic school if you wish. And yes, the quality of education varies. But a basic education is available to everyone, unlike health care, where some simply are not allowed access, period.
You can huff and puff all you want about health care not being a right, but then what “right” do the citizens of Iraq have to live in a democracy? Billions of dollars and thousands of lives are being lost over there, on the premise that a certain brand of freedom is a right to all human beings and is worth the sacrifice even for total strangers. Well then, I’d say at least a basic right to health care exists for all U.S. citizens.
Nicely reasoned, anon 9:53.
Anon 8:05,
Untrue. Everyone has basic access to health care. It’s called the ER and the ETMALA – the mandate that forces emergency rooms to treat everybody regardless of their ability to pay.
“But a basic education is available to everyone, unlike health care, where some simply are not allowed access, period.”
Untrue and unknowledgable about the system anon 08:05. Let me guess..you don’t work in healthcare.
States I have been in have emergency medicare for hospital admissions. Lastly there is medicare (for retires and others) and medicaid. Based on salary some people may not qualify for medicaid. But that is a different issue.
Some people in healthcare are absolutely blind to a most important fact. there are MANY americans who are being denied heathcare..Period!
yes, anyone can go to the ER and receive treatment. When you have a heart attack or a stroke. but, you cannot go there and receive preventative services that would have prevented your heart attack or stroke.
tell me one hospital ER where all the hundreds of thousands of people can go to get a every 3 month check up and receive monthly prescriptions for their chronic health issues?
you people live in a tunnel and you do not see reality.
Atleast with some type coverage for all I assume thes efolks would get basic health care needs and prescriptions for their chronic illnesses. Its a shame you think treatment after a heartattack or stroke is adequate healthcare! How about a need for a way to prevent some of these major occurrences?
I would be for universal healthcare if I believed that the government and insurance companies are not going to become bedfellows in the quest to withhold vital services from patients, while at the same time forming a monopoly to screw over physicians pay.
Anon I know reading USATODAY makes you think you are some type of expert, but you aren’t. The fact is medicaid, medicare, and private insurance provide a patchwork care for the vast majority of citizens. Clearly not perfect and those that fall through the cracks are those that make too much for medicaid, have problems with getting private insurance, and don’t (yet) qualify) for medicare. The notch group is where a big problem lies. However, The lay press loves to bandy around the 40 million plus uninsured americans but the reasons they are uninsured is multifactorial. Studies have shown a good proportion are the young who haven’t even investigated insurance. Additionally many other older people have not investigated insurance options. In the hospital I would on a daily basis hook up middle-aged people who qualified for medicaid yet had not explored the option (one of the groups that really benefits from preventative health care). There are also many who fall into the notch group and that is where the big problem is. The answers are not a soundbite you will get from USATODAY. I was a hospitalist and before that a PCP so I just may have a clue as to what I am talking about. This is something I see and deal with EVERYDAY not on the 5 oclock news. Before you respond, how about proposing a solution. Don’t just give the Micheal Moore mantra of single payer-universal system. If you want single payer than how will it be payed for? How will Americans be forced to accept the necessary rationing that will occur (and it will occur) with the private system? How will the present system of malpractice be changed as now a government agency will be making “medical” decisions by the necessary rationing. It is easy to get an your high horse and say “Some people in healthcare are absolutely blind to a most important fact. there are MANY americans who are being denied heathcare..Period!”. It is a litle different to accept responsibility for your words and propose REALISTIC solutions.
I’m all ears.
I think you are the one reading a bit to much USA Today or maybe since you just know it all yourself, you dont read anything at all. Dont talk to me about medicaid. Your own words tell how ignorant to facts you are. I use to work in SS for county Govt. I know how medicaid works.
You obviously think that anyone within a certain income level can go in there and automatically receive a health ins card. Get REAL!
The truth is, it makes no difference if you have absolutely no money whatsoever, you still may not get any help in that arena. oh they are there for all the single unwed mother’s. But, for many folks they are not there. If you own a home, sorry you aren’t elegible, if you own a car valued at more than 1,500.00 sorry, but again you arent eligible. Thats 15 hundred not 15 gran. If you need medications, even life sustaining medication but do not have a total and permanent disability, then sorry you aren’t eligible.
Thats right, I said a total and permanant disabilty. I dont care of zero is your income you must have a proven permanent disability now to get medicaid. they follow the eact same guidelines as SS for a proven disability and thsi many times takes 18 months to 3 years to get from them.A guideline to even apply for medicaid now is that first you must also apply for SSDA or SSI. Your info is so outdated to not be relevant any longer. Stop spreading these lies around as though they are fact.
I am not concerned about the youth who CHOOSE not to cover themself but i am damn concerned about a LARGE number of folks who fall through the cracks.
AND by the way. dont ever talk down to me again. I realize you are a doctor and therefore you kow everything there is to know, but in this instance, even though you think you do, you don’t..BTW, I also realize that all you did in your psot was inform me that I get my news from USA today, which I dont even read. You DIDNOT address anything i said.
give me the address of the ER where I can send people to get preventative care and obtain their monthly prescriptions for chronic illnesses!
You didn’t propose any solutions.
I have aided in placing literally hundreds of people on medicaid who are not on disability. You can get medicaid without being disabled.
You are correct that home ownership can be an impediment to medicaid (the infamous spend-down provision). If you read what I wrote, there are significant problems with the notch group and coverage. It is these people who are getting shafted under the current system.
As far as “addressing what I said”. You are not discussing the issues or asking questions you are ranting. There is nothing to address. Again if you have any solutions please propose them. But us all a faver. Keep the ranting to yourself.
PS: I am not the anon ER doc 08:47 .
Who do you think you are to tell someone else to “Keep the ranting to yourself” and then go off on a rant yourself? Besides, I am not ranting, I am telling a truth about a situation that has been very misconceived. You guys wnat everyone in the world to believe that medicaid is availble for people that it is not available for.
Maybe at one time a person didn’t have to be disabled to get medicaid but they do now. If you doubt that then test it. Go to your county department of job and family services and try to apply and don’t just read that you may have to meet other guidelines rather than just low income,also, these guidelines are mandated by state so it is possible that some states have different and conflicting guidelines, ask them what everyone of their guidelines are. make sure to ask, if you have no under age dependants at home, if you can get medicaid if you are not disabled.
It is comical that you are tyring to convince people of this, when I actually worked there and absolutely know what the guidelines are. You are outdated in your information.
I didn’t start this conversation so why would finding a solution be my responsibility personally? I just came here to correct wrong information.
Also, here is a site that list the guidelines for applying for medicaid.
This is what it says.
“What is Medicaid?
Medicaid is a federally-funded, state-run program that provides
medical assistance for individuals and families with limited
incomes and resources. It pays for your health care costs,
including doctor’s visits and eye care
How do you qualify:
Qualifications are different from state to state.
You “can” qualify if one of more of the following statements are
true.
* You have children and a limited income.
* You receive or are eligible for Supplemental Security
Income (SSI).
* You’re a pregnant woman who meets income
Other requirements. For example, a family of four making
$23,225 a year or less qualifies.
* Your family’s assets are less than $2,000.
* You receive adoption assistance or foster care assistance.
SCOPE OF SERVICES:
* Inpatient hospital services
* Outpatient hospital services
* Prenatal care
* Vaccines for children
* Physician services
* Nursing facility services for persons aged 21 or older
* Family planning services and supplies
* Rural health clinic services
* Home health care for persons eligible for skilled-nursing
service
* Laboratory and x-ray services
* Pediatric and family nurse practitioner services
* Nurse-midwife services
* Early and periodic screening, diagnostic, and treatment
services for children under age 21
How do you apply?
Contact your local Social Security, Welfare, or Department of
Human Services office.
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/medicaidgeninfo/“
I hope you paid attention to number 2 on that list of gualifications. It states “You receive or are eligible for Supplemental Security
Income (SSI).”
you do know that to receive or be eligible for SSI one must be totally and permanantly disabled? You must apply for it through social security and prove your disability.
So unless you have children in the home (or you are pregnant)you will have to prove a total disability to even be allowed to apply.
Everywhere I have worked there have been hospital run clinics, federally qualified centers, and programs that provide charity care to those that do not qualify for medicaid.
I refer patients to them all the time. They provide comprehensive preventative care.
Still no solutions
“You guys wnat everyone in the world to believe that medicaid is availble for people that it is not available for.”
You really don’t read very well do you. I talked about the notch group and how it is getting shafted several times. No argument it is a problem.
“so it is possible that some states have different and conflicting guidelines, ask them what everyone of their guidelines are”
ding, ding, ding. You answered your own question. There are differences from state to state. The feds are the main payer here. The states administrate. I will say it again. I have aided (with case manager/social worker) in many people people getting medicaid. They didn’t have kids and they were not on disability. They did qualify based on income/assets. That’s the truth. If you think your previous employment for the county makes you a better judge than me, then believe whatever you want. I don’t really care and I am certainly not interested in trying to change your preconcieved notions. Also, as anon 06:04 pointed out there are federally funded centers that offer care for those that don’t qualify for medicaid. In my city there are three such centers and they provide care on a sliding scale based on income. I have also referred to them on a regular basis in my hospitalist days. The problem is the system is patchwork and people fall through the cracks. Especially the notch group. That is the biggest group that needs to be addressed. Now rant away.
PS: You might actually try reading the link you cut and pasted.
Anon 1:13:
I think the idea everyone is getting at is there are alternatives. Personally, I have found the bureaucrats at medicaid agency’s less than helpful with individual situations (no offense). I don’t know whether it is the government mentality, overwork, or laziness, but everytime I have tried to get a fairly quick answer from these guys I have been disappointed. That is why I rely on social workers or case managers that know the system but are not part of the system. They can zero in on the issue, pin down medicaid, and get me an answer for the best interest of the patient. You need to quit shooting the messenger here. We docs all deal with this issue to one degree or another on a daily basis, believe me we get extrememly frustrated with it.
You need to quit shooting the messenger here. We docs all deal with this issue to one degree or another on a daily basis, believe me we get extrememly frustrated with it.
Amen. Why is it that so many want to believe that we have absolutely no clue about the work we do; Every. Freaking. Day?
Will you peasants just shut up and wait for our rulers to solve the problem? Hillary will take care of us (or at least those of us who deserve it).
Yes, you talked about the notch group as though they wern’t really relevant. I talk about them as though they are the MOST relevant, since that group is becoming bigger all the time.
Many more employers are not offering good health benefits to employees, as what we saw in the past, forcing more and more to join this notch group. Many co-pays and up front payments exceed what people can possibly afford to pay, making the notch group bigger. Many more people are bieng denied medicaid making your notch group bigger, so yes, this is a very significant number of people you talk about as though they dont really matter.
Well the guidelines I gave you are STANDARD guidelines, and apply in almost every single state. So, I dont know where you are, but in almost ALL states either you do need children in the home, be pregnant or be disabled to get medicaid, which does nothing to address preventative care and long time medication treatment for this notch group.
I also find it odd that it is me, a layperson, who is trying to convince you, a physician, to have compassion for patients who need medical care. That fact has not just somehow bypassed me. It also seems strange that when someone gives advise that one of you dont agree with then you somehow think you can change facts by getting a few buddy’s in here who go on the attack with you. Yes, there is strength in numbers, but why do you want to not face facts of how serious of a situation the numbers in your NOTCH group are?
Im also very happy that you live in an area where you have 3 free clinics where you can send your patients to that can receive care. I do have to wonder why that would ever be necessary, since where you live, most everyone, can get medicaid? but, dont confuse (which you already have) where you live with how it is in all areas because there are many areas where there are not your free clinics. Or they are to far away for someone to get to.
I can think of no place where the politics is worse than in being employed for the dept of job and family services. Thats why I said i “use” to work there. It is an absolute nightmare trying to get through all the red tape and getting help for the one’s who truly need it.
Oh yes, Im a little bitter. You bet….When I have seen unwed mothers show up with their sixth child and get treated like some damn queen and handed everything she possibly wants. 700.00 food stamps/mo, free medicaid for all, free housing and many many times brand new housing, coutesy of you and me!..And then a 50 yo person who worked all their life comes in with various medical conditions and we are trained to treat them as though they are aliens and talk down to them and deny them everything. To insist they go to social security and spend years fighting for disability when what they really need is monthly prescriptions for chronic illnesses.
Yes, our system is broken. I dont know how to fix it any better than you. but, I will be damn if I continue being a part of something that is so unfair to those who have a real genuine need. While at the same time handing it all to one’s who have absolutely no medical problems who are more than able to work but are rewarded for the hours they spend on their backs and not the ones they spend doing a REAL job.
Why are there so many posters posting as “Anonymous”?
It’s hard to follow the discussions with so many signing on as Anon.
Easy – no one wants their posts entered as evidence in their next malpractice trial, a la Flea.
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