DO’s: The "fake Rolex" of the medical profession?

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Paris Hilton’s psychiatrist is apparently a Doctor of Osteopathy, and the press doesn’t quite understand what the degree means:

Sophy is actually a D.O., or Doctor of Osteopathy. Though osteopaths are still considered licensed doctors in America (not, however, in Europe) and Sophy serves as the legitimate medical director of the L.A. County Department of Family and Child Services, he does not seem eager to tout his full credentials””perhaps because a D.O. is considered by many M.D.s to be the fake Rolex of the medical profession.

Comments

J. Hubbard, MD
Yesterday, as an attending staff OB, I supervised and assisted a 3rd-year OB/Gyn resident in 3 surgeries. This D.O. resident, in an accredited allopathic residency program, which I graduated from 17 years ago, could not have been more prepared nor performed more competently. A D.O is a graduate from a medical school which grants the D.O. degree. An M.D. is a graduate from a medical school which grants the M.D. degree.
Anonymous
Fake Rolex! I’m an MD and as one, here’s my opinion.
For a populus that many people highly regard as teh most educated, I find that kind of ignorant thinking shameful.
In this day and age, from a skills and capability point of view, MD=DOs. DO schools often have slightly ower entrance requirements but thats where the different ends. Many DOs do 5 years of medical school (intern year included as osteopathy) and take a heavier courseload than traditional allopathic programs. They qualify for the same residency programs that MDs fill. Licensing requirements are the same, etc.
I worked with many DOs, and DO students along side allopathic trainees and physicians, including at facilitites where Harvard Medical students train. I manytimes find DOs to be even more compassionate and caring compared to many of the overacheiving MD students.
What was true of DOs many years ago is no longer true today. They are on par with any average MD. Older physicians may have that bias but anyone less than 50 should not. If you do, I only ask that you sincerely reevaluate your criteria for judging other physicians.
Anonymous
Let’s get real. DO schools are a lot easier to get into and everyone knows it. It’s the difference between a 3.6 and a 33, and almost a full standard deviation on the MCAT.
Within any group there are outliers and there are almost certainly some DOs who performed extraordinarily well and still went DO. But the reality is that the vast majority of them would not have been accepted to become MDs. On the other hand, almost all of these people go into primary care, where they are (in turn) almost certainly far more academically qualified than the NPs who are allowed to essentially practice solo now. So it’s really not much of an issue.
KoKo
High GPAs and MCAT scores do not a good physician make. They symbolize the ability of a specific student to perform well on an exam(s).
Why no comments on the foreign medical students, who had GPAs less than 4.00 and average MCAT scores? These kids are returning to the USA after 4 years med school out of the USA, and are filling many interships and residencies, not filled by American graduates.
Isn’t it time that MDs get over themselves??
Petri
I just concluded my application process to medical school. I was accepted to two MD schools and one DO school. Its true that getting in to DO school is academically more lax, but I noticed in the interview that they are also looking for a different type of person. They don’t necessarily want academics or gunners, they want care providers. They know their market is primary care and they produce incredibly competent physicians for that area. The top DO students are equivalent in everyway to MD students. I struggled quite a bit in deciding where to attend, and chose the MD path primarily because I didn’t want to have to take extra boards, learn OMM, or be relegated to a “fake rolex doc,” by the public. Not everyone should need a 3.6 and 30 on the MCAT to become a doctor. The DO schools are forced to take lower students because of the false reputation, and frankly those students need a place to apply anyway, so it all works out for the best. The public should be more appreciative, and both sides Osteo and Allo, need to stop trying to differentiate themselves and educate the public accordingly.
Jane
As a patient, I have found D.O.s to be excellent, thoughtful caregivers, willing to listen to my concerns and work with me instead of talking down to me. If Paris Hilton were my best friend, I would recommend that she see my D.O.
Anonymous
“The DO schools are forced to take lower students because of the false reputation”
I agree with most of your post, but DO schools often have fairly shoddy education standards that would not be tolerated at MD schools. Ridiculous things like not having enough hospitals for their students to rotate in and having to send them hours away. This is further compounded by the absurdly rapid growth of DO schools without a commensurate (as in, any) growth in DO residency positions, including the first FOR PROFIT school of medicine in the US. Individual DOs are fine, but their leadership is cracked out. I’m waiting for the Walmart Osteopathic College, I’m sure they could really squeeze out some extra bucks by outsourcing the teaching to China.
Anonymous
“take a heavier courseload than traditional allopathic programs.”
Uhh, bullshit.
“They qualify for the same residency programs that MDs fill.”
Its very telling that the vast majority of DO grads WANT to go into MD residencies. Thats no mistake. DO residencies suck ass compared to MD residencies and they are located in shitty locations with very small patient bases to train on.
“Licensing requirements are the same, etc.”
Uhh, bullshit again. DO schools are accredited by the AACOM. MD schools are accredited by the LCME. Those organizations have exactly NOTHING in common and they dont share any regulations whatsoever.
In fact its much easier to open up a DO school due to the lax standards that the AACOM uses for accreditation. Thats why there are over 20 new DO programs in the works, including the nations’ first private FOR-PROFIT medical school in Colorado. The DO leadership is giving the medical profession a black eye with their ridiculous antics.
Anonymous
I’m a fourth-year DO student and I agree with Anonymous 12:21. I think my school has done a fantastic job of prepping me for a career in primary care (which I’ll be pursuing), but as for the national leadership, well, lets just say the AOA is not very popular with DO medical students. As a whole, we are very, very upset about the explosion of new DO schools and the mediocre post-grad programs sponsored by the AOA. When I put together my list of residencies to apply to, I didn’t even consider applying to osteopathic programs – too many DO’s had told me to avoid them in favor of an allopathic program.
As a pre-med, I applied only DO. I had a 3.8 and an above average MCAT. I’m proud to be a DO, and I don’t feel like a “fake rolex” for one second. I’m a physician, plain and simple.
RJS
DO school tend to look for different people than MD schools. That’s about where the difference ends.
By the time it’s all said and done, it’s a level playing field and everyone is equally qualified.
The MD path is the path of least resistance, really, because you don’t have idiotic articles like this one written about how you’re a fake doctor.
Anonymous
“Its very telling that the vast majority of DO grads WANT to go into MD residencies. Thats no mistake. DO residencies suck ass compared to MD residencies and they are located in shitty locations with very small patient bases to train on.”
That’s because there are more of them, and they are more specialized. DO residencies tend to focus on primary care, often in rural locations. This is by design. If you want to go outside primary care, you take the USMLE and apply to MD residencies.
Again, the difference is the type of people that DO schools accept. It’s very hard for a gunner to get into a DO school because the interview process weeds them out.
Personally, I wouldn’t attend any of the MD schools I visited. I didn’t like the environment at them, and I didn’t want to spend my money there. I did, however, like the environment at the two DO schools I visited.
I guess that makes me sub-par. *chuckle*
For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t want to go to school with the type of person who would write a post like the one I quoted from.
In the non-pre-med world you’ll never find a real doctor who knocks DOs. Thankfully it restricts itself to being a pre-med and mass-media phenomenon.
One hopes that as time goes on, both demographics correct their rectal-cranial issues, but I’m not holding my breath.
Anonymous
Well, well. The “entertainment” column that Kevin references has been, uh, corrected.
The “fake Rolex” slam has been removed.
It’s still not quite accurate though, as evidenced by this little summary: “Osteopaths focus on alternative treatments, prevention and patients’ total wellness rather than specific symptoms.”
So I guess DOs don’t ask their patients about chest pain or worrisome lumps or rectal bleeding or any of that stuff. Heavens no.
Maybe the writer is confusing them with homeopaths or naturopaths? I can only begin to guess what is going on in her empty little head.
Anonymous
Allopathic arrogance.
Keep it up. Eventually, just like with the Catholic Priests, even the sheep will say enough. Or better yet, Hillary will be elected and bust all of your chops.
Anonymous
6:37, find another bridge to live under.
You are at root a slimy bigot.
Anonymous
Pedophile priests, murders, thieves and criminal arrogant self-serving allopaths. Damn. Caught me on the bigotry.
Hillary is coming to bust your chops.
Anonymous
No 6:37/10:16, you don’t get to excuse yourself with a clever little emoticon wink. Maybe you think everyone but yourself are sheep, you make yourself seem to anyway. Your smarmy comment about pedophile priests is a miserable slur against those who are catholics who never would have accepted abuse as the cost of doing business; you seem to imply that they did. If you do think that, you are a self-deluded keyboard coward.
And your cheap attempt to somehow place pedophiles on the same moral plane as doctors is nothing less than a naked insult. It isn’t any sort of reasoned argument for any point of view save your wish to provoke. That makes you a troll, but little more.
As for Hillary Clinton, who knows what agenda she will have. You think somehow she is all about busting chops. She has to worry about getting nominated first and then getting elected. I don’t think she really understands this country well enough to get back into the White House. She already has a lousy track record on trying to reform health care; I can’t see how she is going to have an easy time convincing the public that she should have another chance. So I don’t think you need to get your tux cleaned for her inaugural ball just yet.
Anonymous
The thing about getting “MD” put after your name when you’re really a “DO” is my pet peeve.
When it’s a good article, the doctor did something good, or the doctor is providing expert commentary on a news show, it’s always “Professor Jones, MD from Mega Medical School”, when I know the doc personally and I know the doc is a D.O. As in, we trained together.
The most recent example is Rick Jadick, the Navy surgeon who was awarded the Bronze Star with “Combat V” for heroic valor in 2006. He was credited with saving the lives of 30 marines and sailors during the Second Battle of Fallujah.
No I didn’t train with him. Don’t know him. But I do know he’s a DO. I doubt the soldiers he saved thought he was a fake Rolex.
But Google “Jadick” and “MD” and look at all the news articles calling him “MD”, including the “Hero MD” cover of Newsweek.
But boyoboy, when a DO does badly it’s “osteopath” this and that, splashed all over the headlines.
Although in the larger scheme of things, it’s one of the smaller complaints I have about the press.
Anonymous
The WHO maintains a compendium of medical schools in all countries. Depending on the country, the school may not use the degree “MD”, or for that matter, may not even use the Roman alphabet.
This can be helpful for one country recognizing another country’s training when a physician tries to practice in another country.
Under “USA” the WHO recognizes that physicians are granted the degree “MD” or “DO”, and there are two systems of training, that is, the allopathic and osteopathic systems.
By right, other countries should be recognizing American MD’s and DO’s equally, subject to the same rules. Same as we recognize their graduates when we take their docs.
Would that it would be such a perfect world. In fact, the USA is one of the most liberal countries when it comes to taking foreign medical graduates.
I have little patience for FMG’s complaining about discrimination in the USA, when I know full well I would not be let in the door in their countries. Most of the time.
There are some countries that allow DO’s full practice rights. I used to be able to find that in AOA publications but find it hard there days, I don’t know why.
Don’t know about Continental Europe, as alluded to in that news article. I recall Israel allows full practice rights. I did notice in Wikipedia, in 2005, the UK General Medical Council started recognizing DO’s for full practice rights. Hopefully the British Commonwealth countries will follow suit, and maybe the EU as well.
Anonymous
Here’s one link on international recognition of DO training:
http://www.oialliance.org/directories.htm
Anonymous
DO’s on here who are trying to prove their equality are inferior. MD’s on here who are trying to prove their superiority are also inferior. When individuals try to mask their own insecurities by claiming “descrimination” or “superiority” they are proving what shitty, self-absorbed physicians they are and how they really don’t care about patients.
Anonymous
Hello,
Let me preface by saying this is only directed to those physicians (M.D. or D.O.) who have complexes about their worth.
I am a 3rd medical student. As a student who graduated with a 3.9 GPA and competitive MCAT score, I was accepted into 4 Allopathic programs (with 2 full-tuition offers) and 8 Osteopathic programs (1 full-tuition offer). I chose my Osteopathic institution becasuse, as it has been previously mentioned, they truly had a desire to see if my heart was in this for what I could do for the people needing care versus some (not all) of the allopathic institutions who were more impressed by my accalaides and potential future research initiatives. I, in no way think that one group is superior or inferior than the other (though there may still be individuals with the Kevin, M.D. mindset), however I along with many of my M.D. candidate friends have noticed that many of the D.O. programs place a greater emphasis on students having well-rounded patient care skills. It is unfortunate that there are physicians such as Dr. Kevin who have failed to realize that patients are the final judge and they judge you on your abilities, amicability, and availabilty. If certain social circles of physicans choose to still hang on to their self-sythesized superiority, then I’ll glady be the appreciated and appreciative “fake rolex” doctor that the common patient would choose to see as opposed to being the rolex with the price tag engraved in its frame in order to ensure that the general public always acknowledges its higher level “significance”.
Anonymous
**(I apologize for the typos in the previous post)**
Hello,
Let me preface by saying this is only directed to those physicians (M.D. or D.O.) who have complexes about their worth.
I am a 3rd medical student. As a student who graduated with a 3.9 GPA and competitive MCAT score, I was accepted into 4 Allopathic programs (with 2 full-tuition offers) and 8 Osteopathic programs (1 full-tuition offer). I chose my Osteopathic institution because, as it has been previously mentioned, they truly had a desire to see if my heart was in this for what I could do for the people needing care versus some (not all) of the allopathic institutions who were more impressed by my accolades and potential future research initiatives. I, in no way think that one group is superior or inferior than the other (though there may still be individuals with the Kevin, M.D. mindset), however I along with many of my M.D. candidate friends have noticed that many of the D.O. programs place a greater emphasis on students having well-rounded patient care skills. It is unfortunate that there are physicians such as Dr. Kevin who have failed to realize that patients are the final judge and they judge you on your abilities, amicability, and availability. If certain social circles of physicians choose to still hang on to their self-synthesized superiority, then I’ll gladly be the appreciated and appreciative “fake rolex” doctor that the common patient would choose to see as opposed to being the rolex with the price tag engraved in its frame in order to ensure that the general public always acknowledges its higher level “significance”.
Anonymous
I was offered a full scholarship to Harvard Medical School, but istead decided on going to my state Osteopathic school. I did it because I like where I live, I like the DO philosophy, it would be easier to pass and get through DO school, and who cares, in the end, my white coat is going to say Doctor Jay, not Jay, DO. I really dont care, as long as I get that cash then can compare me to a fake Movado…
Anonymous
Hello,
Since a an osteopath (D.O.) is the fake rolex of the medical profession compared to the real rolex of the medical profession,i.e., a medical doctor (M.D.), why haven’t D.O.s tried to do anything to become a rolex?
To become the rolex along with M.D.s in the profession, perhaps they can do what foreign medical graduates – M.B.B.S. – have done –> change their degree to M.D.! D(0)uh!!
The point is, D.O.s, to become the rolex along with M.D.s in the profession to seperate yourselves from DNPs (Doctors of Nursing Practice),NPs (Nurse Practioners),DScPAs (Doctors of Science of Physician’s Assistants), and PAs (Physicians Assistants), then it is recommended that DOs change their initials from “DO” to “MD,DO”. If the old timers in the AOA will not let you change your initials, then get your M.D. from http://www.DOTOMD.com.
That is what I recommend to you DOs.
From,
an M.D.(i.e.- a rolex)
For more respect from their patients to recognize that they are real doctors, are some osteopaths now applying for the http://www.DOTOMD.com program? If so, could the doctor then display : MD,DO initials?
Anonymous
My father and grandfather are both M.D.’s and I am a D.O. I never realized that some of my father’s colleagues growing up were D.O.’s. I had a chip on my shoulder and told him that I would apply to M.D. schools only. He told me to apply to all the medical schools in Philadelphia. My education was top notch. I had many friends from college who were at neighboring medical schools and we were all learning the same material. After graduation we finally entered resideny together and eventually took the same Specialty Boards. It’s what you do with the education you are given in medical school that makes the difference. My roommate from med school is now the director of his department at Johns Hopkins and teaches M.D.’s. Here is a link also of a D.O. at Harvard Mass General Hospital.
http://www.insidermedicine.com/archives/In_the_Spotlight_Michael_Jaff_DO_Harvard_Medical_School_Massachusetts_General_Hospital_Discusses_Minimally_Invasive_Treatment_of_Blood_Vessel_Disorders_3074.aspx
Anonymous
DOs are actually fully legitimate physicians in the US. Osteopaths in Europe and elsewhere are different from American DOs. I would not consider a DO to be a fake Rolex, they are essentially the same thing, its a lot more like comparing an Apple to a PC. They both have the same end mission, one has a slightly different philosophy. If you want a fake Rolex doctor, there are thousands of foreign trained doctors from third world countries that practice in the US. There is even a huge cottage industry of foreign medical schools in the Caribbean and Eastern Europe that cater to rejected US students that did not get into MD or DO programs.