Dr. Wes comments on what’s happening in California:
Amazing that California’s Board of Chiropractic Examiners recently adopted a resolution stating that “manipulation under anesthesia” falls under a chiropractic’s scope of service, while also recently abandoning the requirement for doctors of Chiropractic in California to train in CPR.
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{ 19 comments }
I’m trying to figure out why a chiro needs to “manipulate” someone under anesthesia. Is is because some people cringe at hearing their neck / back pop, or are hurt by it? Call me crazy but a chiro shouldn’t be treating these people in the first place.
This frightens me no end. Then again, I wouldn’t visit a chiropractor, so it’s a moot point.
In Lousiana, I’ve had a number of chiropractors attend my ACLS and PALS classes in order to be qualified to provide manipulation under anesthesia. It was my impression that it was regulation by their state licensing board.
that’d be just NUTS – like letting an optometrist do laser surgery! oh wait, that’s actually happening. at least the optometrists perform a useful function, unlike the back-crackers.
This isnt about spinal manipulation, its about doing anesthesia.
Performing anesthesia = $$$$$, much more $$$$ than doing spinal manipulation.
CRNAs make far more money than chiropractors, and anesthesiologists easily pull down 350k.
The reason why chiros are doing this is because they want to bill for performing anesthesia services. They would make far more money doing that than any spinal manips.
It’s the ignorance threshold problem again. Just like the psychologists, who are social scientists with no medical grounding, who want to prescribe meds under the regulation of, guess who, the psychology board.
The chiropractors are in the same boat, they are so ignorant of the subject that they have no idea just how ignorant they are. Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.
Read quackwatch if you want to see how deadly these “manipulations” can be. Now they want to kill more people by likely giving inappropriate doses of anesthesia. When is the gov’t going to start restricting this garbage? How many stories are there of patients coding in outpaitnet plastic surgery clinics or even endooscopy suites. And these people are DOCTORS!!
Just like Moe told Homer on the Simppsons “Forget it Homer, it’s Chiro-town”
Chirofrauders… what a joke. I guess they got tired of bilking the auto insurance companies with their bullsh*t “subluxation hypothesis” (completely unproven), myalgias, lumbagos, lumbalgias, myositis and what other garbage can term they could come up with for whiny litigants.
~Criminallopath~
My understanding is that they want to come in to an OR and do manipulation while someone else (Anesthesiologist or CRNA) administers general anesthesia.
I think only GI docs are actively trying to do anesthesia at this point.
My biggest gripe with the chiropractors in this case (other than doing quack medicine in a legitimate medical facility) is that poor schmuck anesthesiologists are going to be taken along for the ride when the chiropractors get sued.
it SO irks me when a patient says they need a referral to a “keeropractica” for their dolor-dolor-dolor. i quickly tell thim it’s garbage designed to bilk insurers, and that i’ve never heard of anyone getting better w/such sham treatment any sooner than a placebo.
if by some miracle this were to pass, any anesthesiologist would have to be crazy to participate with such crap.
that’d be analogous to, i dunno, physiatrists & neurologists being in cahoots w/chiropractors!
oh, i guess it could happen, for the right price of course.
Does anyone care what the “ambulance driver says”?
I sure as hell don’t!
I am an anesthesiologist and find this ridiculous and dangerous for patients. Spinal Manipulation under anesthesia is a scam, and no decent anesthesiologist would ever take part in this practice.
The only place that I have seen a viable use for “manipulation” under anesthesia is for the breaking of capsular adhesions for patients with adhesive capsulitis of the shoulder (aka. frozen shoulder syndrome). There is no place for the junk science of “spinal manipulation” for either the awake or the anesthetized.
~Criminallopath~
Actually, manipulation under anesthesia is very effective for people with frozen shoulder syndrome and with severe biomechanical restrictions. You must remember, when these people go to their M.Ds, they will be given a pill. Nice. Not all chiroprators are ignorant. If I meet an ignorant M.D., I don’t think that All M.D.s are ignorant. Why the bias against an entire profession? Who’s ignorant and close minded?
A clarification: The majority of chiropractors DO NOT want to do manipulation under anesthesia, nor do they believe it is necessary. Just as there are different treatment options, styles, and specialties in all medical/surgical fields, chiropractors also differ in their approach. If you went to one medical doctor you didn’t like their treatment that would not stop you from consulting with another until you were comfortable with the treatment and their approach to your health care. Unfortunately, there seems to be a perception that all chiropractors are the same in ability, philosophy, and moral character. Ignorance is bliss. When you are in pain why consider a more natural approach to healing and less pain or a way or managing a condition that may never completely go away?
Go for the drugs and surgery!
I can’t believe some of the ignorant comments on this site. There are good and bad doctors in every profession. I had sinus problems for almost 3 months straight, my MD gave me 3 differnt medications, every time I went back and told him it wasn’t working he prescribed yet another medication. A friend suggested that I see a chiropractor and afetr two adjustments I’ve been fine for over 2 months. Why are people so closed minded. There is a place for alternative medicine, medicine and surgery, IN THAT ORDER! Don’t speak if you haven’t tried it.
Anonymous
I cannot believe the ignorance on this site, especially those who go to the site quackwatch.com written by an unlicensed supposed medical doctor. All I have to say is follow up on what you are reading before posting comments.
http://www.chiro.org/LINKS/FULL/Quackwatch_Founder_Loses_Defamation_Case.shtml Information is much better when you have all the facts.
I love the clueless commentors of this site. Maybe understanding the actual procedure/facts before running to conclusions can help the ingnorance of the world.
Pre-MUA
1. Patients are appropriately evaluated by their medical physician, anesthesiologist and chiropractic physician prior to the procedure.
2. All appropriate clearance forms, laboratory results, imaging reports and other supportive data are available for review in the patients chart.
MUA-Procedure
1. MUA is performed with the patient in a semiconscious state. Anesthesia is provided under the direct supervision of a board certified anesthesiologist or the medical physician based on applicable state laws.
A. The chiropractic physician does not order or administer any medications.
B. Blood pressure, oxygen saturation and EKG are recorded by the anesthesiologist throughout the procedure.
2. The primary doctor and the first assistant move the patient in specific ranges of motion to accomplish the procedure. In this capacity; the patient depends on the primary doctor and first assistant to protect them from bodily injury. Since the patient is responsive only to painful stimuli and does not have the ability to respond to proprioceptive input; both the primary physician and the first assistant are key to a safe and successful procedure.
pretty funny. the results are awesome. Many people don’t want to go under the knife with a 40% success rate (and by-the-way, that just means feeling better than pre-op after one year, 80% of back surgery patients return to their previous state, or worse, within 5 years). Talk about dangerous! People that don’t respond to decompression, which over 85% do, and avoid invasive surgery, sometimes respond to this treatment. It’s not for everyone, but if it works more often that surgery, why wouldn’t any sane mind try it first? I guess the quick fix people might. Many M.D.’s and D.O.’s are turning to natural, diet based, alternative treatments first, before subjecting their patients to the side effects all meds have. Seems like the ethical thing to do unless you are in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies, lazy or ignorant. Treating the symptom is the easy way out, treat the human first, find out what is really causing it, fix that part of the lifestyle, not just throw poison at someone right off the bat. Drugs are needed, so is surgery, but if you can avoid them, as a physician, you should. Remember raising your hand and saying, “first do no harm”??
~Criminallopath~ your tag is well stated. Remember it wasn’t that long ago that your ilk were prescribing poison for the common cold, getting your asses kicked by Homeopaths, and using leeches, oh wait you are still using leeches. Funny how you tards co-opted the word science in the 1940s and now consider yourselves scientists, though you wouldn’t make a pimple on a scientist’s ass. If you were you’d be a physicist, a chemist, a geologist or the like. You study a small amount of basic science in college and med school then convince yourself your a scientist…laughable. Maybe this is a little much for you but your year of P and O chem doesn’t make you a chemist (a real scientist by the way)! Prescribing pharmaceuticals created by scientists doesn’t make you one. The few of you doing your little clinical trials using real scientist’s chemicals or real scientist’s devices doesn’t make you a scientist. You don’t become a scientist by taking 4 or 5 classes and putting on a lab coat. So a sham…yeah…oh and what percentage of all medical procedures are proven by double blind clinical trials? Look that one up to jackass.
Happyman, ponder this as well. Close minded because you like evidence…laughable. Your an internist…definitely not genius material…not bright enough to get into an advanced fellowship, couldn’t even get accepted into a cardiology fellowship eh? Oh wait yeah, that was your passion…to make as much as a PA and have enough juice in the medical profession to boss PAs and Nurses around and that’s it.
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