Comments on: Freebirth controversy http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html medical blog Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:01:49 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-2#comment-87957 Anonymous Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:05:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-87957 My problem with the doctors is that they want to feel like they've done something, contributed to society. This is good, if properly utilized. In birth, it isn't. They jump in too soon with their medical procedures, rather than let nature take it's course. Example: Failure to Progress... Generally caused by inducing labor too early with petocin or oxytocin, when the cervix simply isn't ready to dilate. Than, rather than wait another hour (at 12 hours they start pushing a C-Section), they do "emergency" surgery... In a situation that they created in the first place. If they'd simply waited for the mother to go into labor naturally, when the cervix was ready to be softened, there wouldn't have been a problem.<br/><br/>Also, to Sambo, the cord around the neck isn't an issue at a home birth, either. You say no one would have known? All you have to do is look at the baby when it comes out, and take the cord off it's neck. And don't say "but the baby wouldn't be able to breathe." They still draw oxygen from the umbilical cord for anywhere from 5-30 minutes after birth. Basically, until the placenta is born.<br/><br/>I am not a doctor, or a midwife, I am soon-to-be mother, who is fully researching all options to determine what's best for my child. I live 2 hours from the nearest good hospital, and 3 hours from a midwife.<br/><br/>In the course of my research, I've learned that, yes, doctors are great IF something big goes wrong, but they merely complicate simple things in a normal, healthy pregnancy. Midwives are good, though it's best to do your research, and question them to make sure they know what they're talking about, and that they know what to do. In Texas (where I live), all midwives are licensed, and carry oxygen, IV's, petocin (for hemmorhaging), sutures, herbs, etc.<br/><br/>My best advice for anyone interested in FreeBirth, which I am currently researching, is that you shouldn't do it if you aren't willing to take the time and research what to do if something goes wrong. Find out about the most common problems and how to fix them, learn the warning signs of the problems you can't fix, and know when to go to the hospital. Be willing to take responsibility, it's yours whether you go doctor, midwife, or unassisted.<br/><br/>If you aren't willing to take the time and do the research, a hospital (or at least a birthing center) is probably the best place for you.<br/><br/>This is simply my opinion, based on the research I've done. I don't want to get in the middle of a fight with anyone, you're entitled to your opinions and views. I just think that fear-based medicine is not the healthiest option. Hope for the best, know what to do if something goes wrong. Don't "prepare for the worst" by doing unneccesary procedures, tests, shots, cuts, whatever, unless there is a REAL need. My problem with the doctors is that they want to feel like they’ve done something, contributed to society. This is good, if properly utilized. In birth, it isn’t. They jump in too soon with their medical procedures, rather than let nature take it’s course. Example: Failure to Progress… Generally caused by inducing labor too early with petocin or oxytocin, when the cervix simply isn’t ready to dilate. Than, rather than wait another hour (at 12 hours they start pushing a C-Section), they do “emergency” surgery… In a situation that they created in the first place. If they’d simply waited for the mother to go into labor naturally, when the cervix was ready to be softened, there wouldn’t have been a problem.

Also, to Sambo, the cord around the neck isn’t an issue at a home birth, either. You say no one would have known? All you have to do is look at the baby when it comes out, and take the cord off it’s neck. And don’t say “but the baby wouldn’t be able to breathe.” They still draw oxygen from the umbilical cord for anywhere from 5-30 minutes after birth. Basically, until the placenta is born.

I am not a doctor, or a midwife, I am soon-to-be mother, who is fully researching all options to determine what’s best for my child. I live 2 hours from the nearest good hospital, and 3 hours from a midwife.

In the course of my research, I’ve learned that, yes, doctors are great IF something big goes wrong, but they merely complicate simple things in a normal, healthy pregnancy. Midwives are good, though it’s best to do your research, and question them to make sure they know what they’re talking about, and that they know what to do. In Texas (where I live), all midwives are licensed, and carry oxygen, IV’s, petocin (for hemmorhaging), sutures, herbs, etc.

My best advice for anyone interested in FreeBirth, which I am currently researching, is that you shouldn’t do it if you aren’t willing to take the time and research what to do if something goes wrong. Find out about the most common problems and how to fix them, learn the warning signs of the problems you can’t fix, and know when to go to the hospital. Be willing to take responsibility, it’s yours whether you go doctor, midwife, or unassisted.

If you aren’t willing to take the time and do the research, a hospital (or at least a birthing center) is probably the best place for you.

This is simply my opinion, based on the research I’ve done. I don’t want to get in the middle of a fight with anyone, you’re entitled to your opinions and views. I just think that fear-based medicine is not the healthiest option. Hope for the best, know what to do if something goes wrong. Don’t “prepare for the worst” by doing unneccesary procedures, tests, shots, cuts, whatever, unless there is a REAL need.

]]> By: Scott http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-2#comment-87667 Scott Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:45:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-87667 Unfortunately, the disturbing trend here is that for many, this is *not* about providing information for the mother to make an informed choice. There seems to be a sense among some that they know better than the mother what is best for her and her child, and their will should be imposed upon her by force of law if need be. Unfortunately, the disturbing trend here is that for many, this is *not* about providing information for the mother to make an informed choice. There seems to be a sense among some that they know better than the mother what is best for her and her child, and their will should be imposed upon her by force of law if need be.

]]> By: Sambo http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-85253 Sambo Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:09:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-85253 Eating the "right" foods doesn't keep an umbilical cord from being wrapped around your baby's neck. It doesn't keep you the possibility of bleeding to death (which is the number one cause of death during childbirth), it isn't necessarily the cause of your blood pressure getting to high, and it isn't the cause of a breech birth. This is just another example of people believing that health problems, complications, and death all have to do with whether or not you are a good person. You don't need a doctor because nothing could happen to you--you eat organic food. If others need a doctor, they must not be taking care of themselves. This is nonsense. Essentially: shit happens. You had no complications because you lucked out. But according to lime.com, 15% of the women who die in childbirth die because of complications that could not be predicted--and therefore, not prevented. However, the complications could be treated if they were in the presence of a doctor. Maybe 15% seems small, but I bet it wouldn't if during one of your childbirths you'd had a complication that took your life. This nearly happened to my sister--her blood pressure got dangerously high while she was giving birth. Had she been at home, we wouldn't have known--and she would have died. But luckily, she was at a hospital. And she's doing fine. When my mother was giving birth to my other sister, the umbilical cord got wrapped around the baby's neck. Again, if she had been at home, no one would have known, and the baby would have died. But she was at a hospital and they fixed it. So now we're two for two--you have two examples of how a homebirth went okay, and I've got two examples of how medicine was crucial--for events that had nothing to do with a high risk pregnancy. So don't give us anecdotes as evidence--because if we're going strictly off of anecdotes, a 50/50 shot of your homebirth going awry doesn't seem like good odds to me. Eating the “right” foods doesn’t keep an umbilical cord from being wrapped around your baby’s neck. It doesn’t keep you the possibility of bleeding to death (which is the number one cause of death during childbirth), it isn’t necessarily the cause of your blood pressure getting to high, and it isn’t the cause of a breech birth. This is just another example of people believing that health problems, complications, and death all have to do with whether or not you are a good person. You don’t need a doctor because nothing could happen to you–you eat organic food. If others need a doctor, they must not be taking care of themselves. This is nonsense. Essentially: shit happens. You had no complications because you lucked out. But according to lime.com, 15% of the women who die in childbirth die because of complications that could not be predicted–and therefore, not prevented. However, the complications could be treated if they were in the presence of a doctor. Maybe 15% seems small, but I bet it wouldn’t if during one of your childbirths you’d had a complication that took your life. This nearly happened to my sister–her blood pressure got dangerously high while she was giving birth. Had she been at home, we wouldn’t have known–and she would have died. But luckily, she was at a hospital. And she’s doing fine. When my mother was giving birth to my other sister, the umbilical cord got wrapped around the baby’s neck. Again, if she had been at home, no one would have known, and the baby would have died. But she was at a hospital and they fixed it. So now we’re two for two–you have two examples of how a homebirth went okay, and I’ve got two examples of how medicine was crucial–for events that had nothing to do with a high risk pregnancy. So don’t give us anecdotes as evidence–because if we’re going strictly off of anecdotes, a 50/50 shot of your homebirth going awry doesn’t seem like good odds to me.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-80515 Anonymous Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:26:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-80515 My grandmothers and my mother didn't have any medical help when they were giving birth, as there was simply none available. This also goes for most of my aunts. None of them had any problems that they couldn't deal with themselves. This really makes me wonder what is so incredibly dangerous about childbirth that everybody keeps telling women to get medical help. My own children were born without any midwife attending as they simply didn't make it in time. My children are all healthy and so am I.<br/>I personally believe that its simply a case of being healthy, eating healthy food and being educated on the birth process, as I was told to do by my GP and midwife. Of course I do not see any use in playing russian roulette when someone has the feeling something is wrong to not see a doc.<br/>On the other hand I personally know a few women who told their OB's that they knew something was wrong, which was ignored, which resulted in handicapped and dead babies. So this also makes me wonder if those docs should then be sued just as Dr. Crippen says that the moms should be for their choice, or should it be the moms for trusting the doc who said nothing was wrong when something was wrong.....<br/>Very difficult decision, especially as all choices are made with the best of intentions. My grandmothers and my mother didn’t have any medical help when they were giving birth, as there was simply none available. This also goes for most of my aunts. None of them had any problems that they couldn’t deal with themselves. This really makes me wonder what is so incredibly dangerous about childbirth that everybody keeps telling women to get medical help. My own children were born without any midwife attending as they simply didn’t make it in time. My children are all healthy and so am I.
I personally believe that its simply a case of being healthy, eating healthy food and being educated on the birth process, as I was told to do by my GP and midwife. Of course I do not see any use in playing russian roulette when someone has the feeling something is wrong to not see a doc.
On the other hand I personally know a few women who told their OB’s that they knew something was wrong, which was ignored, which resulted in handicapped and dead babies. So this also makes me wonder if those docs should then be sued just as Dr. Crippen says that the moms should be for their choice, or should it be the moms for trusting the doc who said nothing was wrong when something was wrong…..
Very difficult decision, especially as all choices are made with the best of intentions.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-75410 Anonymous Thu, 24 May 2007 17:42:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-75410 I believe there is a much more basic underlying question here that needs to be addressed - the question of freedom. For generations there was no question, for the options were few. Now that there are hospitals, birth centers, OBs, midwives, and freebirthers, suddenly there must be a definitive answer of what is correct behavior. Since in remote areas there are fewer options, their healthcare choice must be correct, since traveling during labor could be more dangerous than staying home. Why, then, should people in more health-care diverse areas not have the same options available to them? My point is that a woman's choice on her own childbirth venue should not be legislated. She should have access to all birth options, and be allowed to make an informed decision based on all of the facts. I believe there is a much more basic underlying question here that needs to be addressed – the question of freedom. For generations there was no question, for the options were few. Now that there are hospitals, birth centers, OBs, midwives, and freebirthers, suddenly there must be a definitive answer of what is correct behavior. Since in remote areas there are fewer options, their healthcare choice must be correct, since traveling during labor could be more dangerous than staying home. Why, then, should people in more health-care diverse areas not have the same options available to them? My point is that a woman’s choice on her own childbirth venue should not be legislated. She should have access to all birth options, and be allowed to make an informed decision based on all of the facts.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-75406 Anonymous Thu, 24 May 2007 16:37:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-75406 This discussion seems to have disintegrated to a war between medicine and midwifery - which has little to do with the actual "Freebirth controversy". Freebirth does not include the presence of a midwife. It is the mother alone delivering her own baby - without the presence of midwife or dr.<br/><br/>This is dangerous, I believe. Those who support it claim "we've been having babies for thousands of years..." etc, but neglect to mention that even the earliest records of civilization indicate the presence of midwives - even if they were only older, more experienced women of the community.<br/><br/>These women were able to detect potential problems in the birthing process and often to circumvent those problems. To have a child at home, with no one more experienced and knowledgable is dangerous, not only to the child, but to the mother.<br/><br/>For an uncomplicated pregnancy & labor, there is no reason to run off to the hospital, but to assume there will be no problems during delivery that might require the aid of a midwife of some sort is silliness.<br/><br/>CL This discussion seems to have disintegrated to a war between medicine and midwifery – which has little to do with the actual “Freebirth controversy”. Freebirth does not include the presence of a midwife. It is the mother alone delivering her own baby – without the presence of midwife or dr.

This is dangerous, I believe. Those who support it claim “we’ve been having babies for thousands of years…” etc, but neglect to mention that even the earliest records of civilization indicate the presence of midwives – even if they were only older, more experienced women of the community.

These women were able to detect potential problems in the birthing process and often to circumvent those problems. To have a child at home, with no one more experienced and knowledgable is dangerous, not only to the child, but to the mother.

For an uncomplicated pregnancy & labor, there is no reason to run off to the hospital, but to assume there will be no problems during delivery that might require the aid of a midwife of some sort is silliness.

CL

]]> By: DS http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-75369 DS Wed, 23 May 2007 19:24:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-75369 I believe this controversy is rooted in the fallacious assumption that "natural" is safe and efficacious while "medicine,science,and drugs" are tainted by the flawed hand of man and therefore untrustworthy.<br/><br/>Regardless of the incalculable number of natural things that can cause great harm or the manner in which nature conducts her business (e.g. Prey being eaten alive by its 'natural' predator)<br/>there is an unasailable purity and sense of perfection that is assigned to her. Crede quod habes, et habes.<br/><br/>Doctors, medicine are bad ergo Natural childbirth is good.<br/><br/>The rest then becomes an exercise in distorting the meaning of factual information while cherry picking data to support a preconceived notion about the nature of man. Timendi causa est nescire. I believe this controversy is rooted in the fallacious assumption that “natural” is safe and efficacious while “medicine,science,and drugs” are tainted by the flawed hand of man and therefore untrustworthy.

Regardless of the incalculable number of natural things that can cause great harm or the manner in which nature conducts her business (e.g. Prey being eaten alive by its ‘natural’ predator)
there is an unasailable purity and sense of perfection that is assigned to her. Crede quod habes, et habes.

Doctors, medicine are bad ergo Natural childbirth is good.

The rest then becomes an exercise in distorting the meaning of factual information while cherry picking data to support a preconceived notion about the nature of man. Timendi causa est nescire.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-75368 Anonymous Wed, 23 May 2007 19:19:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-75368 I fail to understand the animosity between obs/midwives/freebirthers. Isn't the whole point to give women information so they can make an informed decision about their own healthcare? I am a granny midwife, and help women through pregnancy and birth without charging anything. But I would certainly not discourage anyone from seeking medical help, nor would I discourage them from birthing on their own. I just want to give them information, a little insight, and support so they feel empowered to make good decisions. Childbirth is not something to be feared. It is to be honored, welcomed, and blessed. I fail to understand the animosity between obs/midwives/freebirthers. Isn’t the whole point to give women information so they can make an informed decision about their own healthcare? I am a granny midwife, and help women through pregnancy and birth without charging anything. But I would certainly not discourage anyone from seeking medical help, nor would I discourage them from birthing on their own. I just want to give them information, a little insight, and support so they feel empowered to make good decisions. Childbirth is not something to be feared. It is to be honored, welcomed, and blessed.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-75362 Anonymous Wed, 23 May 2007 06:28:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-75362 I think women should have the choice to "freebirth" or not without all this controversy and hooplah (i.e. all this banter between anon and Happyman).<br/><br/>We just need to recognize that women have been giving birth for AGES without physician intervention and humanity for the most part has done just fine. When a birth goes well, heck nobody (except of course the active participants) really need to get involved. I'd even venture to say that the majority of births would do just fine without intervention. <br/><br/>Freebirthers just need to be aware that _in case_ potentially life saving procedures are required (i.e. an emergency c-section for a persistent and unremitting fetal heart deceleration remote from delivery, or a hysterectomy for intractable uterine atony and bleeding) such procedures would be immediately unavailable, which could lead to a severely disabled baby, a dead baby, or dead mother.<br/><br/>That being said, bad outcomes are bound to happen whether or not you're at home or in the hospital. The only difference is how you'll feel if a loved one dies at home, or at the hospital where at least they may have had a fighting chance and have had "everything done". <br/><br/>The cynical side of me says that if I were a practicing Obstetrician tired of beind sued for unavoidable bad outcomes (which i'm not...i'm just an interested reader), I'd secretly fund the Freebirther movement to get as many women as possible to deliver at home...but make darn sure I tell all patients that's the worst thing they could possibly do. <br/><br/>At least malpractice rates might go down. I think women should have the choice to “freebirth” or not without all this controversy and hooplah (i.e. all this banter between anon and Happyman).

We just need to recognize that women have been giving birth for AGES without physician intervention and humanity for the most part has done just fine. When a birth goes well, heck nobody (except of course the active participants) really need to get involved. I’d even venture to say that the majority of births would do just fine without intervention.

Freebirthers just need to be aware that _in case_ potentially life saving procedures are required (i.e. an emergency c-section for a persistent and unremitting fetal heart deceleration remote from delivery, or a hysterectomy for intractable uterine atony and bleeding) such procedures would be immediately unavailable, which could lead to a severely disabled baby, a dead baby, or dead mother.

That being said, bad outcomes are bound to happen whether or not you’re at home or in the hospital. The only difference is how you’ll feel if a loved one dies at home, or at the hospital where at least they may have had a fighting chance and have had “everything done”.

The cynical side of me says that if I were a practicing Obstetrician tired of beind sued for unavoidable bad outcomes (which i’m not…i’m just an interested reader), I’d secretly fund the Freebirther movement to get as many women as possible to deliver at home…but make darn sure I tell all patients that’s the worst thing they could possibly do.

At least malpractice rates might go down.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html/comment-page-1#comment-74974 Anonymous Sun, 13 May 2007 12:17:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/05/freebirth-controversy.html#comment-74974 The facts that hand-washing reduced the rate of pueperal fever, and that pueperal fever still occurs and is due to streptococcus, in no way implies, suggests, or should leave any one with a minimum of medical training to conclude that these remaining cases of pueperal fever are due to "unsanitary habits."<br/><br/>This demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of epidemiology, and common sense. Has there been prospective study comparing the rates of pueperal fever in those cared for by an OB/GYN vs. those cared for by a midwife? No one under the care of a midwife has ever developed puerperal fever? (I am fairly certain that if there has been, it has been blamed of the care rendered by the previous provider.) The facts that hand-washing reduced the rate of pueperal fever, and that pueperal fever still occurs and is due to streptococcus, in no way implies, suggests, or should leave any one with a minimum of medical training to conclude that these remaining cases of pueperal fever are due to “unsanitary habits.”

This demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of epidemiology, and common sense. Has there been prospective study comparing the rates of pueperal fever in those cared for by an OB/GYN vs. those cared for by a midwife? No one under the care of a midwife has ever developed puerperal fever? (I am fairly certain that if there has been, it has been blamed of the care rendered by the previous provider.)

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