What’s happening at Walter Reed is small sample of how government-run health care would turn out. Does the public understand the implications of a nationally-run health care system?
I’ve read more reports than I care to count of people whose doctors don’t care one bit for them, and just move them through “routine” visits, and of people who die while on months-long waiting lists for necessary life-saving procedures such as emergency heart surgery. In fact, this is the norm in every country with socialized health care.Of course, these things happen sometimes in the U.S. too, but most people mistake the reason. The reason, of course, is that the health care system here is partially socialized already. This is why doctors no longer make house calls, only spend five minutes or less on your $100 office visit, and don’t seem to care. But at least you can still get your heart bypass surgery before you die “” for now.
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{ 15 comments }
In Canada patients wait years for non-elective surgeries. The rationing is insane over there. I’ve heard of patients with MIs having to wait days for the crash cart. In certain provinces they only have one syringe that must be constantly shuttled throughout the state.
All across the northern US border Canadians are storming into our country to use our medical facilities. Every year I hear one story about how a Canadian couldn’t wait any longer for elective surgery and came down to the US. What about the millions of other Canadians that do the same thing, but don’t get stories about them?
And look at the Canadian health statistics! They’re terrible. They’re no where near our amazing US health stats.
Poor Canada. When will you learn that the free market is the only way to go! Governments can’t be relied on for anything!
Great post Kevin!
No worries. You have to figure that the AARP won’t like what socialized healthcare means for their constituents. A lot of the rationing occurs at the end of the game if you know what I mean. I mean why you be healed to liver for a measly two more years… or five or ten when someone else could live for 50. That is how you will bring down the cost of healthcare.
i’m afraid the public doesn’t get it. even in conservative south dakota, where i live, people expect the government to “fix it” for them, whatever the problem.
and pols, dems and repubs, know that to get elected, they have to pander to that attitude.
Hi,
I think it is important to make clear the distinction between socialized medicine (where the doctors are government employees, like Cuba or the US military healthcare system) and social insurance, where the government is responsible for insurance issues, but the medical system itself can be privatized (Medicare, classically). Sure, perhaps you disagree with both, or perhaps you are worried that social insurance will pave the way to socialized medicine; however, they are sufficiently different issues to merit separate arguments. The conflation of the two often confuses debates on these topics (and it is sometimes used as a rhetorical tactic by those who are against government insurance). There are arguments for social insurance (universal, government-provided insurance– Medicare for all, as it were) that are not applicable to socialized medicine. The free market is the best system for most goods and services, and is probably the best path for provision of health care (I don’t mean insurance, but _health care_ itself– I think that one of the confusing points is that “universal health care” has come to mean “universal insurance”). But medical insurance has enough unique aspects that it may well be the glaring exception to the benefits of the otherwise successful free market system.
“This is why doctors no longer make house calls”
Actually housecalls are making a big comeback, because it’s one of the few areas that medicare has actually INCREASED reimbursements for (until this year, that is). This is due to the recognition that the aging of the population will inevitably cost a fortune in hospitalization, etc. There’s even an academy of homecare physicians. http://www.aahcp.org
Social insurance like Medicare where the payor sets a fixed price is definitely not a free market. Any economist will tell you that price is the conveyor of information and value in a free market–without price floating freely, it is a socialist system even if the workers are self-employed piece-workers instead of government employees.
Medicare, Medicaid, and HMO’s where one has overwhelming market share, in paying everyone the same fee for care, create a race to the bottom in quality of care. The faster and shoddier the service, the more money you make. The less resource you put in, the bigger the profit. Medicare is a raw deal for a doctor with pride in his work. It is a great deal for a quack. 30$ for 5$ worth of service is great money–for $100 worth of service it is an insult.
The free market does not always deliver good service–but at least I can move my business elsewhere–and pay more if that is what I have to do in order to get the service I want. That is the critical thing to keep–freedom. Medicare patients do not really have it. The myth is that they can see any doctor. The fact is they can see any doctor willing to deliver a service commensurate with the value Medicare puts on it–but Medicare isn’t the one that is sick. The doctor that practices to a higher standard and finds he can’t do it for the Medicare price, is not available to that patient.
I would not call the American health care system a free market system. (!!!)
Daniel, I liked your post. I think it made a lot of sense.
I also know at least one doc who makes housecalls (but for elderly or immobile patients only). Of course, there have always been those docs who treat only the rich-n-famous and they make house calls.
Kathy in Kentucky
Whoops! Pardon my split infinitive. Like anyone cares.
K in Ky
Christ Kevin, whatever happened to evidence-based discussions? You’re worse than the anti-vaccination nuts who at least have one or two peer-reviewed studies to cite. All you ever post is anecdotal stories from people who are obviously biased and have no sources to back up their personal opinions.
“But the problem with universal health care is worse than dirty, rat-infested hospitals with the normal hospital staff replaced with uncaring bureaucrats straight out of the DMV. In Canada and Britain, which both have this type of socialized health care, actual health care services are strictly rationed. I’ve read more reports than I care to count of people whose doctors don’t care one bit for them, and just move them through “routine” visits, and of people who die while on months-long waiting lists for necessary life-saving procedures such as emergency heart surgery. In fact, this is the norm in every country with socialized health care.”
He obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about at all. Canada and Britain have vastly different systems, we sure as hell don’t have rotting mould and rats in our hospitals. How can he even begin to think that the military system is the same as the Canadian system?
I understand that the American government is horrible, and I can see why such a system might not work in the U.S. because no American government would properly fund the system.
I have some anecdotal evidence to contribute, for what it’s worth. My parents live in Canada and are dual citizens (US and Canadian). My mother says her PCP is very kind and caring and that she’s generally pleased with the quality of care she’s received. However, even though she lives in a part of Canada that has fewer shortages, she had to wait over a year for a cholecystectomy. She would call me during a “gall attack” crying in pain every few months. I told her to come to the US to get the surgery over with, but she said she simply couldn’t afford to pay cash for it. Since I couldn’t pay either, she waited in Canada. Why she thinks this is ok is beyond me, but she actually still has nothing particularly negative to say about the Canadian system. Go figure.
Of course most complaints about the health care systems in the UK and Canada are going to be anecdotal. Most complaints about ANY health care system are.
Further, the people able to access the data (the various provinces ministries of health in Canada, and the NHS in the UK) are hardly dispassionate reporters of fact. They have an agenda, to convince the taxpaying subjects that their health care is fine – no matter what.
The Frasier Institute http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=658
conducts annual surveys and reports on the Canadian health care debacle.
News reports by CTV (hardly a conservative organ of anything) report 6-year waits for a consult (not treatment):
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/print/CTVNews/20070223/back_patients_070224/20070224/?hub=TopStories&subhub=PrintStory
While the CTV story may not be journal-quality, if the facts related in the story are untrue, it should be easy enough to disprove it.
In short, if there is this much smoke, there just might be a fire around. And hiding one’s head in the ground going ‘la-la-la’ while people attemt to show these facts isn’t a justification, an explanation, or a denial.
Wake up, it’s not like this isn’t happening in the U.S. either.
Val M.D. proves the point that if you don’t have enough money in the U.S., you’re never going to get treatment. Nevermind a wait. And just today I was reading a blog where someone in Boston had to wait 4.5 months for a procedure, and goes on to say that a lot of people are using the ED because the wait for specialists is too long for them. Wow, it doesn’t only happen up here in Canada! The only reason no one hears about these American stories is because the health system in the states is not accountable to anyone, whereas in Canada, it *is* held accountable. When there’s a problem, it gets reported to the public so that we can lobby to get things fixed. Over the past few years there are programs that have been implemented to improve wait times, but these thing take time. Healthcare is complex and wait times won’t be solved right away. Before you bash a system you know nothing about, take a look at your own problems first.
Anecdotal evidence is never sufficient, never. Anyone involved in medicine should know that. That one story about a six year wait does in no way reflect the system as a whole. That’s all there is to it. These little anecdotal stories falsely skew people’s perceptions as to the state of healthcare up here. The simple fact remains that there are statistics that can be accessed by anybody (you have to a little research), not just those with “an agenda”.
And btw, the Frasier Institute which is often quoted on this site, is well out on the fringes of the wacky right-wing in this country. They’re always publishing highly biased reports and trying to shift the national agenda more to the right. They’re not given much creedence up here, and really should stop being quoted. It just discredits whoever is using them to argue a point.
That CTV article also continues to spew tired myths.
It mentions that doctors are being lured away by higher pay, but in fact, more doctors are now returning to Canada than those that are leaving. Here’s the CTV article: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1124901085504_5/?hub=CTVNewsAt11
It’s true we talk about the waits in Canada but the truth is atleast at some point they do get see a specialist and have surgeries. If you have no ins and no money in the USA then sorry you will get get fixed.
Also, you don’t have to go to Canada for a wait list. Try calling a USA GI specialist office for a first appointment. Some are scheduling for 7 months out.
Oh please Canadian universal health care gets a good mark from everyone I have talked to. The problem is the medical industry here in the US..greedy doctors and medical directors,pharmaceutical co’s,insurance co’s We have all been told we are the best country in the world from the tiime we were kids, , and yet the US favor big companies and doctors,insurance co’s and the hell with the little people. Dr’s make a fortune here in the states, and wouldn’t like maybe a little less mabe a little less…but most european countries as well as Canada have looked out for their citizens in a caring fashion for years, while we take people and put them out on the street when we need the bed they were in…..This best country in the world seems like propaganda to me; as they are working on your loyalty and patriotism all the while charging you a fortune for everything here in the US and screwing you right and left whether you can afford it or not; and if not then the hell with you….quite the humanitarians we are here in the US. GREED REALLY SUCKS!!!
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