<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: A Christian pediatrician turns away a child because of her mother&#8217;s tattoos</title> <atom:link href="http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:05:00 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: whatthe</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-100777</link> <dc:creator>whatthe</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:10:05 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-100777</guid> <description>Maybe the doc thought the mother was sue happy or that Obama was saying to him &quot;don&#039;t do it, this isn&#039;t covered under my new plan!&quot;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the doc thought the mother was sue happy or that Obama was saying to him &#8220;don&#8217;t do it, this isn&#8217;t covered under my new plan!&#8221;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-72907</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:34:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-72907</guid> <description>it is strange that people base there opinions on &quot;stories&quot; rather than facts.  Would it change your responses if you knew that in fact this mother WAS told about the &quot;cover your tattoos when in waiting room&quot; policy before she made the apt as a potential new patient; was given the option to go to another office when she questioned the policy; when she agreed to do so, was offered a same day apt. but mother wanted a next day apt! Came to the office with uncovered tattoos and when reminded to cover up the father uttered profanities and became threatning to the office staff; staff decided Not to process as new patient then both stared flailing arms at staff. Meanwhile the child was giggling, bouncing on the sofa and showing no signs of being in &quot;pain&quot; at that time! As &quot;professionals/doctors&quot; I thought would know better than to trust what they read in the general media. Moral of this incidence: please get the facts before passing judgement. THis doctor probably sees many patients whose parents are tattooed but covered  out of consideration to other families. I hope to see people being upset about parents that use their children as social pawns. Why didn&#039;t the mother bring the chil the same day? why didn&#039;t she seek another provider if she didnt want to cover up her tattoes for one hour/ why did she and dad use profanities when reminded to cver-up and become physically threatning?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is strange that people base there opinions on &#8220;stories&#8221; rather than facts.  Would it change your responses if you knew that in fact this mother WAS told about the &#8220;cover your tattoos when in waiting room&#8221; policy before she made the apt as a potential new patient; was given the option to go to another office when she questioned the policy; when she agreed to do so, was offered a same day apt. but mother wanted a next day apt! Came to the office with uncovered tattoos and when reminded to cover up the father uttered profanities and became threatning to the office staff; staff decided Not to process as new patient then both stared flailing arms at staff. Meanwhile the child was giggling, bouncing on the sofa and showing no signs of being in &#8220;pain&#8221; at that time! As &#8220;professionals/doctors&#8221; I thought would know better than to trust what they read in the general media. Moral of this incidence: please get the facts before passing judgement. THis doctor probably sees many patients whose parents are tattooed but covered  out of consideration to other families. I hope to see people being upset about parents that use their children as social pawns. Why didn&#8217;t the mother bring the chil the same day? why didn&#8217;t she seek another provider if she didnt want to cover up her tattoes for one hour/ why did she and dad use profanities when reminded to cver-up and become physically threatning?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Okulus</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-72000</link> <dc:creator>Okulus</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-72000</guid> <description>This post is taking on a life of its own. You might have to call the doctor himself about some of your questions. I suppose he prefers patients and families who would not get tattooed in the first place. And if you hid your tattoo under clothing, than how would he know until it was too late? All speculation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The larger point is not about tattoos but about his deciding who he is willing to see and not see. In a private practice setting, it is pretty much his choice. He doesn&#039;t have to give any notice except to say he won&#039;t be seeing the patient. He actually doesn&#039;t even have to give a reason why. And the board of medicine has no say in the matter either, except to field a complaint if there is one; they can&#039;t make him see patients he doesn&#039;t want to see in his private practice (and what is the &quot;state board of medical examiners&quot; anyway? I never heard of them.)  So no, just because you think he ought to tell potentially excludable patients up front does not mean he actually has to do that at all.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This issue has been addressed in the courts already, namely by the U.S. Court of Appeals, 5th Circuit, which has affirmed a doctor&#039;s right to refuse to see a patient in a private setting.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Unknowledgable people believe they can&#039;t be refused service for peculiar reasons or even for no given reason at all, but that simply isn&#039;t the case and never has been. These stories are odd and probably rare, but they are not a deviation from allowed practices.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is taking on a life of its own. You might have to call the doctor himself about some of your questions. I suppose he prefers patients and families who would not get tattooed in the first place. And if you hid your tattoo under clothing, than how would he know until it was too late? All speculation.</p><p>The larger point is not about tattoos but about his deciding who he is willing to see and not see. In a private practice setting, it is pretty much his choice. He doesn&#8217;t have to give any notice except to say he won&#8217;t be seeing the patient. He actually doesn&#8217;t even have to give a reason why. And the board of medicine has no say in the matter either, except to field a complaint if there is one; they can&#8217;t make him see patients he doesn&#8217;t want to see in his private practice (and what is the &#8220;state board of medical examiners&#8221; anyway? I never heard of them.)  So no, just because you think he ought to tell potentially excludable patients up front does not mean he actually has to do that at all.</p><p>This issue has been addressed in the courts already, namely by the U.S. Court of Appeals, 5th Circuit, which has affirmed a doctor&#8217;s right to refuse to see a patient in a private setting.</p><p>Unknowledgable people believe they can&#8217;t be refused service for peculiar reasons or even for no given reason at all, but that simply isn&#8217;t the case and never has been. These stories are odd and probably rare, but they are not a deviation from allowed practices.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-71999</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:37:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-71999</guid> <description>Many are assuming their was an appointment.  They may have come in as &quot;walk-ins&quot;.  The story doesn&#039;t say.  It also doesn&#039;t paint a picture of anything else that happened there that day.  Maybe the physician or his staff made the judgement that she was likely to be the kind of patient who is entitled and demanding and is more trouble than the next 20.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If that was the case, they may have judged correctly.  How are we hearing about this?  Is our learning of this a result of the would be patient trying to embarass a person with whom she never actually did business.   Most people without a conflict oreintation would just shake the dust of his office off his feet, go somewhere else, and complain to their friends.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Medical ethics are clear:  except in an emergency, a physician is free to choose whom he shall serve.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many are assuming their was an appointment.  They may have come in as &#8220;walk-ins&#8221;.  The story doesn&#8217;t say.  It also doesn&#8217;t paint a picture of anything else that happened there that day.  Maybe the physician or his staff made the judgement that she was likely to be the kind of patient who is entitled and demanding and is more trouble than the next 20.</p><p>If that was the case, they may have judged correctly.  How are we hearing about this?  Is our learning of this a result of the would be patient trying to embarass a person with whom she never actually did business.   Most people without a conflict oreintation would just shake the dust of his office off his feet, go somewhere else, and complain to their friends.</p><p>Medical ethics are clear:  except in an emergency, a physician is free to choose whom he shall serve.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-71993</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:14:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-71993</guid> <description>If the doctor doesn&#039;t want to see patients with tattoos, fine.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But he has the obligation to tell patients up front, when they are making appointments, that he does not see that kind of patient.  No hiding his preferences.  Full and complete disclosure of his practice&#039;s policies.  And a notice posted in his waiting room about his preferences.  As well as a policy notice on any website that he maintains for his practice, or any hospital website that lists him in their physician directory.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I wonder what he does when an established patient or their parent, previously sans tattoo, goes out and gets one.  Does the doctor fire that patient?  Would the state board of medical examiners view that as a valid reason to fire a patient?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the doctor doesn&#8217;t want to see patients with tattoos, fine.</p><p>But he has the obligation to tell patients up front, when they are making appointments, that he does not see that kind of patient.  No hiding his preferences.  Full and complete disclosure of his practice&#8217;s policies.  And a notice posted in his waiting room about his preferences.  As well as a policy notice on any website that he maintains for his practice, or any hospital website that lists him in their physician directory.</p><p>I wonder what he does when an established patient or their parent, previously sans tattoo, goes out and gets one.  Does the doctor fire that patient?  Would the state board of medical examiners view that as a valid reason to fire a patient?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-71986</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:50:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-71986</guid> <description>Having an &quot;appointment&quot; is not a guaranteed right to service. If you show up drunk, or behaving badly, or dressed inappropriately, you can be refused service, re-scheduled, or be told to get care elsewhere.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The doc thinks tattooed parents are not the kinds of people he wants around his private practice. That is his right and his choice. Showing up displaying a tattoo can get you refused service, just like wearing inappropriate clothing or being drunk.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having an &#8220;appointment&#8221; is not a guaranteed right to service. If you show up drunk, or behaving badly, or dressed inappropriately, you can be refused service, re-scheduled, or be told to get care elsewhere.</p><p>The doc thinks tattooed parents are not the kinds of people he wants around his private practice. That is his right and his choice. Showing up displaying a tattoo can get you refused service, just like wearing inappropriate clothing or being drunk.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-71983</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:19:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-71983</guid> <description>&lt;i&gt;That is not necessarily the higher standard to which many people, including many doctors, would judge sufficient for their personal practice, and I do not believe it is intended to be&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t see expecting someone to keep an appointment is a higher standard. No matter what business you deal with, you expect a person you made an apointment with to keep it. If a business has special requirements, you should be notified at the time you make an appointment, but not after you wasted time and driven there. This is considered proper and ethical behavior regardless the business you are dealing with. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In this particular case, it was more than inconvenience for the mother. The child was in pain. Also, many doctors here mentioned that a child with otitis could very well be viewed as an emergency. Saying that the fact that woman brought the child to the doctor instead of ER proves that this was not an emergency is ridiculous - we, as lay people, don&#039;t always know what is or isn&#039;t an emergency. Neither did the doctor until he examined the child. Given that one doesn&#039;t just &quot;go to another doctor&quot; and is automatically seen the same day (we don&#039;t even know what time of the day it was) and given that the wait times in the ER could be very long (and that the woman may not know if she should go to the ER or if her problem can wait till the next day), it is quite possible that a child could&#039;ve suffered real lasting harm.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That is not necessarily the higher standard to which many people, including many doctors, would judge sufficient for their personal practice, and I do not believe it is intended to be</i><br />I don&#8217;t see expecting someone to keep an appointment is a higher standard. No matter what business you deal with, you expect a person you made an apointment with to keep it. If a business has special requirements, you should be notified at the time you make an appointment, but not after you wasted time and driven there. This is considered proper and ethical behavior regardless the business you are dealing with.</p><p>In this particular case, it was more than inconvenience for the mother. The child was in pain. Also, many doctors here mentioned that a child with otitis could very well be viewed as an emergency. Saying that the fact that woman brought the child to the doctor instead of ER proves that this was not an emergency is ridiculous &#8211; we, as lay people, don&#8217;t always know what is or isn&#8217;t an emergency. Neither did the doctor until he examined the child. Given that one doesn&#8217;t just &#8220;go to another doctor&#8221; and is automatically seen the same day (we don&#8217;t even know what time of the day it was) and given that the wait times in the ER could be very long (and that the woman may not know if she should go to the ER or if her problem can wait till the next day), it is quite possible that a child could&#8217;ve suffered real lasting harm.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-71972</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 06:12:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-71972</guid> <description>I work in the ER and NOT the ED!&lt;br/&gt;on our EMR system ED only has one meaning and it is usually cured with a little blue pill......</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in the ER and NOT the ED!<br />on our EMR system ED only has one meaning and it is usually cured with a little blue pill&#8230;&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-71967</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 04:28:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-71967</guid> <description>&gt;&gt;&quot;Bullshit.&lt;br/&gt;Legality never has and never will determine what is appropriate ethical behavior. &quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Don&#039;t make yourself seem so stupid. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nowhere did I equate the legality of this physician&#039;s act with the standards of an ethical act. Those are separate concepts. Nonetheless, his action probably meets the minimum ethical standards of the AMA. That is not necessarily the higher standard to which many people, including many doctors, would judge sufficient for their personal practice, and I do not believe it is intended to be. Those standards do not require philanthropy, something that many contributors to these comments repeatedly fail to grasp. And they do permit the practitioner to exercise considerable latitude in deciding who he may treat. And just because the doctor is a pediatrician and the prospective patient is a child doesn&#039;t change that position. Yes, it may offend. Yes, many find it a very perverse notion of Christian practice. Yes, the patient  and her mother were inconvenienced. All that can be true. But as compelling as these ideas might seem to most people, the doctor was still within his rights to do what he did and in doing so still did not breach the standards of ethics of the AMA. The AMA does not prohibit obnoxious beliefs. And you should not expect them to be the last word on &quot;common decency&quot; and other hard to define notions of considerate, compassionate behavior. Other better agencies are suited to make those standards.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And no one said you have to like any of it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>&#8221;Bullshit.<br />Legality never has and never will determine what is appropriate ethical behavior. &#8220;</p><p>Don&#8217;t make yourself seem so stupid.</p><p>Nowhere did I equate the legality of this physician&#8217;s act with the standards of an ethical act. Those are separate concepts. Nonetheless, his action probably meets the minimum ethical standards of the AMA. That is not necessarily the higher standard to which many people, including many doctors, would judge sufficient for their personal practice, and I do not believe it is intended to be. Those standards do not require philanthropy, something that many contributors to these comments repeatedly fail to grasp. And they do permit the practitioner to exercise considerable latitude in deciding who he may treat. And just because the doctor is a pediatrician and the prospective patient is a child doesn&#8217;t change that position. Yes, it may offend. Yes, many find it a very perverse notion of Christian practice. Yes, the patient  and her mother were inconvenienced. All that can be true. But as compelling as these ideas might seem to most people, the doctor was still within his rights to do what he did and in doing so still did not breach the standards of ethics of the AMA. The AMA does not prohibit obnoxious beliefs. And you should not expect them to be the last word on &#8220;common decency&#8221; and other hard to define notions of considerate, compassionate behavior. Other better agencies are suited to make those standards.</p><p>And no one said you have to like any of it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Chrysalis Angel</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/02/christian-pediatrician-turns-away-child.html#comment-71966</link> <dc:creator>Chrysalis Angel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 02:37:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/02/a-christian-pediatrician-turns-away-a-child-because-of-her-mothers-tattoos.html#comment-71966</guid> <description>Judgement is for Christ ONLY.  No one here can judge.  St.Matthew 18:4-7.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judgement is for Christ ONLY.  No one here can judge.  St.Matthew 18:4-7.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using apc
Page Caching using disk: enhanced
Database Caching 2/6 queries in 0.003 seconds using memcached
Object Caching 440/444 objects using apc
Content Delivery Network via cdn.kevinmd.com

Served from: www.kevinmd.com @ 2012-02-14 19:16:54 -->
