Comments on: Socialized medicine: Will this presumption hold? http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html medical blog Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:15:05 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-80740 Anonymous Sat, 06 Oct 2007 02:41:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-80740 So what is the solution to the problem that is going to hit the US within the next 10 years? Th fact that there will be more Americans with no insurance to help pay for your services? Within 10 years the average cost for medical insurance will take up to 50% of the average monthly income. Families are going to have to start to choose between feeding their families or having insurance. Then what will happen is that we will see more ER's closing because there will be more people going through them without the ability to pay for the services. Then it won't matter what kind of services you provide, because you won't be getting paid for your work. So what is the solution? We cannot continue the way we are going. So what is the solution to the problem that is going to hit the US within the next 10 years? Th fact that there will be more Americans with no insurance to help pay for your services? Within 10 years the average cost for medical insurance will take up to 50% of the average monthly income. Families are going to have to start to choose between feeding their families or having insurance. Then what will happen is that we will see more ER’s closing because there will be more people going through them without the ability to pay for the services. Then it won’t matter what kind of services you provide, because you won’t be getting paid for your work. So what is the solution? We cannot continue the way we are going.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-72144 Anonymous Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:07:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-72144 Plaintiffs Jacques Chaoulli, a physician, and his patient, George Zeliotis, launched their legal challenge to the government's monopolized healthcare system after having had to wait a year for hip-replacement surgery. In finding for the plaintiffs, Canada's high court said, "The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public healthcare system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public healthcare. The evidence also demonstrates that the prohibition against private health insurance and its consequence of denying people vital healthcare result in physical and psychological suffering that meets a threshold test of seriousness." Writing for the majority, Justice Marie Deschamps said, "Many patients on non-urgent waiting lists are in pain and cannot fully enjoy any real quality of life. The right to life and to personal inviolability is therefore affected by the waiting times." Plaintiffs Jacques Chaoulli, a physician, and his patient, George Zeliotis, launched their legal challenge to the government’s monopolized healthcare system after having had to wait a year for hip-replacement surgery. In finding for the plaintiffs, Canada’s high court said, “The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public healthcare system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public healthcare. The evidence also demonstrates that the prohibition against private health insurance and its consequence of denying people vital healthcare result in physical and psychological suffering that meets a threshold test of seriousness.” Writing for the majority, Justice Marie Deschamps said, “Many patients on non-urgent waiting lists are in pain and cannot fully enjoy any real quality of life. The right to life and to personal inviolability is therefore affected by the waiting times.”

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-72143 Anonymous Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:55:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-72143 I am not a physician (though both my parents were and my brother currently is a doctor) but I can do math. France is a nation of roughly 60 million, Britain 60 million, Germany 80 million and Canada 31 million. The U.S. has a population of 300 million with a virtual river of humanity crossing our southern border every year. One cannot credibly believe that any socialized medical scheme would work in this country and not collapse under its own bureaucratic weight or be so costly as to diminish the quality of care, drastically, across the board. The Russian system, when it was a fully socialized system, only supported half that population (roughly 140 million), had the resources of a world superpower and was a disaster. Our current system is being artificially hamstrung. The market is not being allowed to work properly. What we need is tort reform and less government interference(among other things), and not increased, inherently inefficient government involvement. I am not a physician (though both my parents were and my brother currently is a doctor) but I can do math. France is a nation of roughly 60 million, Britain 60 million, Germany 80 million and Canada 31 million. The U.S. has a population of 300 million with a virtual river of humanity crossing our southern border every year. One cannot credibly believe that any socialized medical scheme would work in this country and not collapse under its own bureaucratic weight or be so costly as to diminish the quality of care, drastically, across the board. The Russian system, when it was a fully socialized system, only supported half that population (roughly 140 million), had the resources of a world superpower and was a disaster. Our current system is being artificially hamstrung. The market is not being allowed to work properly. What we need is tort reform and less government interference(among other things), and not increased, inherently inefficient government involvement.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-71014 Anonymous Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:49:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-71014 "As far as my skills go, in the OR I can run circles around most of my Canadian and European counterparts..."<br/><br/>Yeah, and very well-proven too. Wow, there's no arguing with that evidence! “As far as my skills go, in the OR I can run circles around most of my Canadian and European counterparts…”

Yeah, and very well-proven too. Wow, there’s no arguing with that evidence!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-70988 Anonymous Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:21:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-70988 Massive layoffs of workers from decreased production. Large wait times for surgeries or to see a physician. Socialized medicine is rationed care. As the previous poster noted there is no incentive for efficiency. I hope you are not an Eagles fan because if we had Socialized medicine Donovan McNabb would probably be scheduled to get his ACL repaired about 2 months from now and would be ready for the 2008 season. Wally from the YMCA and a hundred others would be ahead of him on the list and orthopedic surgeons would have not even close to the same production that they have now. Massive layoffs of workers from decreased production. Large wait times for surgeries or to see a physician. Socialized medicine is rationed care. As the previous poster noted there is no incentive for efficiency. I hope you are not an Eagles fan because if we had Socialized medicine Donovan McNabb would probably be scheduled to get his ACL repaired about 2 months from now and would be ready for the 2008 season. Wally from the YMCA and a hundred others would be ahead of him on the list and orthopedic surgeons would have not even close to the same production that they have now.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-70970 Anonymous Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:36:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-70970 I've operated in the U.S. and England and I can tell you hands down the efficiency is incredible in the U.S. Physicians don't like to get paid less for what they do but the last 15 years of declining reimbursement has been good in one way, at least for American surgeons. They are incredibly efficient. Easily the most efficient in the World despite all of the paperwork. An average O.R. day in England I would do 2 surgeries before lunch, a 2 hour lunch and 1 surgery in the afternoon. Here I do 12-15 cases in two different ORs and take a very late lunch. I can do in one O.R. day what it took 5 days to do in England. Those that have been in both can tell you the volume done by American surgeons is incredible. This definitely benefits the resident surgeons that they have here also. For the most part they are incredibly skilled coming out of training. I’ve operated in the U.S. and England and I can tell you hands down the efficiency is incredible in the U.S. Physicians don’t like to get paid less for what they do but the last 15 years of declining reimbursement has been good in one way, at least for American surgeons. They are incredibly efficient. Easily the most efficient in the World despite all of the paperwork. An average O.R. day in England I would do 2 surgeries before lunch, a 2 hour lunch and 1 surgery in the afternoon. Here I do 12-15 cases in two different ORs and take a very late lunch. I can do in one O.R. day what it took 5 days to do in England. Those that have been in both can tell you the volume done by American surgeons is incredible. This definitely benefits the resident surgeons that they have here also. For the most part they are incredibly skilled coming out of training.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-70968 Anonymous Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:05:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-70968 "I don't know how you can claim that an overworked doctor is going to provide better care than one that works a relatively standard week."<br/><br/>The anecdotal quote was in response to anon 10:29 that said,<br/><br/>"So you're implying that Canadian docs (and British, Swedish, French, German, etc.) all work less and provide less quality care than you guys do."<br/><br/>By your own admission US doctors working an 80hrs/week do work more,<br/><br/>"The national average here ...[Canada]...is 52 hours for FP's."<br/><br/><br/>Additionally your 5 days of call per month is 1/3 of what I take.<br/><br/>Maybe you blokes should start working more to get that wait list down a bit, eh?<br/><br/><br/>As for quality, we all know that for surgeons practice makes perfect. You should know that, but maybe you are an FP.<br/><br/>As far as my skills go, in the OR I can run circles around most of my Canadian and European counterparts... “I don’t know how you can claim that an overworked doctor is going to provide better care than one that works a relatively standard week.”

The anecdotal quote was in response to anon 10:29 that said,

“So you’re implying that Canadian docs (and British, Swedish, French, German, etc.) all work less and provide less quality care than you guys do.”

By your own admission US doctors working an 80hrs/week do work more,

“The national average here …[Canada]…is 52 hours for FP’s.”

Additionally your 5 days of call per month is 1/3 of what I take.

Maybe you blokes should start working more to get that wait list down a bit, eh?

As for quality, we all know that for surgeons practice makes perfect. You should know that, but maybe you are an FP.

As far as my skills go, in the OR I can run circles around most of my Canadian and European counterparts…

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-70957 Anonymous Fri, 26 Jan 2007 20:24:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-70957 Re: "the health care professional will, the bureaucrats presume, simply put up with it forever".<br/><br/><a HREF="http://www.drjshousecalls.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Nope</a>. Re: “the health care professional will, the bureaucrats presume, simply put up with it forever”.

Nope.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-70955 Anonymous Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:51:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-70955 Sorry, I guess you guys are confusing quality of care with quantity of hours worked. I don't know how you can claim that an overworked doctor is going to provide better care than one that works a relatively standard week. Also, anecdotal evidence is not enough to judge a whole system. The national average here (in Canada, which I admit is probably different from a lot of European countries) is 52 hours for FP's. This decreases in larger multi-disciplinary practices increases in more rural and remote areas. Call varies, but 63% of us take call up to 120 hours a month while 15% take higher amounts. This works out to about 58 hours a week for the average doc. A healthier system for all.<br/><br/>And I should point this out - we are NOT government employees. We work for the most part in private practices, but instead of billing insurance companies, we bill the government. Sorry, I guess you guys are confusing quality of care with quantity of hours worked. I don’t know how you can claim that an overworked doctor is going to provide better care than one that works a relatively standard week. Also, anecdotal evidence is not enough to judge a whole system. The national average here (in Canada, which I admit is probably different from a lot of European countries) is 52 hours for FP’s. This decreases in larger multi-disciplinary practices increases in more rural and remote areas. Call varies, but 63% of us take call up to 120 hours a month while 15% take higher amounts. This works out to about 58 hours a week for the average doc. A healthier system for all.

And I should point this out – we are NOT government employees. We work for the most part in private practices, but instead of billing insurance companies, we bill the government.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this.html/comment-page-1#comment-70947 Anonymous Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:08:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/socialized-medicine-will-this-presumption-hold.html#comment-70947 Here is what you will get -- doctors unionizing just like nurses, teachers, police, firefighters, and other government workers that drains the tax payer.<br/><br/>I will want to work 9 - 430 with an hour lunch break, paid vacation, holidays, paid time for CME, my own paid health care benefits, maternity leave, a pension, limits on how many patients I see, overtime pay.....<br/><br/>None of which I have as a hard working American physician. Here is what you will get — doctors unionizing just like nurses, teachers, police, firefighters, and other government workers that drains the tax payer.

I will want to work 9 – 430 with an hour lunch break, paid vacation, holidays, paid time for CME, my own paid health care benefits, maternity leave, a pension, limits on how many patients I see, overtime pay…..

None of which I have as a hard working American physician.

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