Comments on: Single payer truths, from Ontario’s Ministry of Health http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:04:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html#comment-70556 Anonymous Thu, 18 Jan 2007 07:32:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios-ministry-of-health.html#comment-70556 We spend less in GDP compared to other countries because we do not pay our doctors and nurses well plus we are not offering expensive services to the ones in need...if you don't spend, your %GDP will be low...and why are we still doing very well in terms of longevity, infant mortality?...because we have a bunch of dedicated and" crazy" physicians and staff that will work for putnuts all in the name of medicine...they are not paid the same way the US are paying their medical personnel...you have a lack of family doctors because nobody wants to be one...obviously overwork and underpay is a factor...to fix the problem, OHIP should pay family doctors more then the field will attract more medical students.. We spend less in GDP compared to other countries because we do not pay our doctors and nurses well plus we are not offering expensive services to the ones in need…if you don’t spend, your %GDP will be low…and why are we still doing very well in terms of longevity, infant mortality?…because we have a bunch of dedicated and” crazy” physicians and staff that will work for putnuts all in the name of medicine…they are not paid the same way the US are paying their medical personnel…you have a lack of family doctors because nobody wants to be one…obviously overwork and underpay is a factor…to fix the problem, OHIP should pay family doctors more then the field will attract more medical students..

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html#comment-70285 Anonymous Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:10:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios-ministry-of-health.html#comment-70285 Listen - please give the infant mortality bullshit a rest - in Canada and the US we go all out to save preemies that in most of Europe would be called a "miscarriage" and therefore not sully their infant mortality stats.<br/>And to Mr "grossly overpaid" try callin gout a plumber for 8 hours on a Saturday night and see what he bills you , dickwad. I bet you go to the ER with the sniffles and bitch about having to wait for 6 hours. Listen – please give the infant mortality bullshit a rest – in Canada and the US we go all out to save preemies that in most of Europe would be called a “miscarriage” and therefore not sully their infant mortality stats.
And to Mr “grossly overpaid” try callin gout a plumber for 8 hours on a Saturday night and see what he bills you , dickwad. I bet you go to the ER with the sniffles and bitch about having to wait for 6 hours.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html#comment-70217 Anonymous Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:17:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios-ministry-of-health.html#comment-70217 This comes to us by way of David Frum, renowned conservative loony... This comes to us by way of David Frum, renowned conservative loony…

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html#comment-70215 Anonymous Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:15:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios-ministry-of-health.html#comment-70215 Here are some more stats (taken from http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/):<br/><br/>The US spends over $2 trillion a year on health care, almost 17% of the GDP. By comparison, Switzerland, Germany and Canada spend about 10% of their GDP on health care, while United Kingdom spends less than 8%. Despite this, the 2005 Commonwealth Fund International Health Policy Survey of sicker adults from six countries, Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the US reported that "(t)he United States often stands out with high medical errors and inefficient care and has the worst performance for access/cost barriers and financial burdens." Moreover, the US lags well behind many other countries in indices of quality of care. In 2005 the US ranked 42nd among the world's nations in infant mortality, with 6.50 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, behind such nations as Singapore (2.29), Sweden (2.77), France (4.26), Canada (4.75) and United Kingdom (5.16), and was 29th among developed countries in maternal mortality. In 2004, 46 million people (15.7% of the US population, about one-fifth of them children) were without any form of health insurance. Many of these have been without health care for years, though others are between jobs that provide health care coverage. In addition another 50 million people in the US have inadequate health care coverage and would be bankrupted by a serious illness. <br/><br/><br/>Also: Health insurance premiums are skyrocketing. In 2004 the annual premium of an employment-based group plan for a family of four averaged $9,950 and workers are contributing an ever-increasing amount to these premiums. The percentage of people with employment-based health insurance in 2004 was 61 percent and is likely to fall further in the coming years as employers strive to reduce health insurance overheads. <br/><br/>Anybody can find stats to support their position...<br/><br/>hehe, I missed the fact that he's not even a minister too. The name didn't sound very familiar but I just thought there had been a change... Here are some more stats (taken from http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/):

The US spends over $2 trillion a year on health care, almost 17% of the GDP. By comparison, Switzerland, Germany and Canada spend about 10% of their GDP on health care, while United Kingdom spends less than 8%. Despite this, the 2005 Commonwealth Fund International Health Policy Survey of sicker adults from six countries, Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the US reported that “(t)he United States often stands out with high medical errors and inefficient care and has the worst performance for access/cost barriers and financial burdens.” Moreover, the US lags well behind many other countries in indices of quality of care. In 2005 the US ranked 42nd among the world’s nations in infant mortality, with 6.50 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, behind such nations as Singapore (2.29), Sweden (2.77), France (4.26), Canada (4.75) and United Kingdom (5.16), and was 29th among developed countries in maternal mortality. In 2004, 46 million people (15.7% of the US population, about one-fifth of them children) were without any form of health insurance. Many of these have been without health care for years, though others are between jobs that provide health care coverage. In addition another 50 million people in the US have inadequate health care coverage and would be bankrupted by a serious illness.

Also: Health insurance premiums are skyrocketing. In 2004 the annual premium of an employment-based group plan for a family of four averaged $9,950 and workers are contributing an ever-increasing amount to these premiums. The percentage of people with employment-based health insurance in 2004 was 61 percent and is likely to fall further in the coming years as employers strive to reduce health insurance overheads.

Anybody can find stats to support their position…

hehe, I missed the fact that he’s not even a minister too. The name didn’t sound very familiar but I just thought there had been a change…

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html#comment-70212 Anonymous Mon, 08 Jan 2007 21:48:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios-ministry-of-health.html#comment-70212 The list of ministers and deputy ministers can be found at:<br/><br/>http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/ministry/about.html<br/><br/>The alleged source of this nonsense is not on that list. North American doctors are grossly overpaid compared to world standards. I'm not surprised you're willing to lie to maintain that system. The list of ministers and deputy ministers can be found at:

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/ministry/about.html

The alleged source of this nonsense is not on that list. North American doctors are grossly overpaid compared to world standards. I’m not surprised you’re willing to lie to maintain that system.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html#comment-70208 Anonymous Mon, 08 Jan 2007 21:19:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios-ministry-of-health.html#comment-70208 I think we should be looking at France's system (or for that matter, other European countries), not simply towards the "free market", definitely not to America's and not the UK's. <br/>Also, just from looking at the numbers you quote, the US spends almost twice as much on healthcare than we do in Canada. How is that not a big deal? <br/>These things have to be looked at from a relative viewpoint. We may not have a perfect system, but it's still better than the US system or the majority of other countries on this planet for that matter. Let's look at what the minister says are the major problems: wait times, techonological advances, and new drug availability. First of all, for the most part, these are not dire problems and second of all, some of this could be due to the fact that we have a more cautious drug review process up here. Also, new technology is not always better, and we shouldn't assume that "old technology" is not functioning just as well. <br/><br/>Of course healthcare costs are going to increase. Everything is increasing including inflation, pollution, stress, the ratio of elderly and dependant populations. <br/><br/>"Free market" theory flaws aside, the issue many people are concerned about is that if we allow more corporate involvement to take control, public funding for those who can't afford private services will inevitably gradually be cut by the government and eventually become totally inadequate. This would then turn into an issue that the majority of society wouldn't care about because it would only concern the poor, remaining unadressed. <br/><br/>I think that a great deal of Canada's healthcare problems occur primarily in the north and in rural areas. We should be looking to fix those things instead of totally dismissing the entire system. I think we should be looking at France’s system (or for that matter, other European countries), not simply towards the “free market”, definitely not to America’s and not the UK’s.
Also, just from looking at the numbers you quote, the US spends almost twice as much on healthcare than we do in Canada. How is that not a big deal?
These things have to be looked at from a relative viewpoint. We may not have a perfect system, but it’s still better than the US system or the majority of other countries on this planet for that matter. Let’s look at what the minister says are the major problems: wait times, techonological advances, and new drug availability. First of all, for the most part, these are not dire problems and second of all, some of this could be due to the fact that we have a more cautious drug review process up here. Also, new technology is not always better, and we shouldn’t assume that “old technology” is not functioning just as well.

Of course healthcare costs are going to increase. Everything is increasing including inflation, pollution, stress, the ratio of elderly and dependant populations.

“Free market” theory flaws aside, the issue many people are concerned about is that if we allow more corporate involvement to take control, public funding for those who can’t afford private services will inevitably gradually be cut by the government and eventually become totally inadequate. This would then turn into an issue that the majority of society wouldn’t care about because it would only concern the poor, remaining unadressed.

I think that a great deal of Canada’s healthcare problems occur primarily in the north and in rural areas. We should be looking to fix those things instead of totally dismissing the entire system.

]]> By: Anonymoushttp://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios.html#comment-70203 Anonymous Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:51:00 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2007/01/single-payer-truths-from-ontarios-ministry-of-health.html#comment-70203 And the Left in this country want to head down the same treacherous road as that taken by the NHS and Canadian Medicare. Now with clear evidence that the great single payer healthcare systems of the UK and Canada are in deep trouble financially as well as clinically (wait times, old technology, access issues, etc), we can once again claim a victory for “free markets”. To fix our healthcare problems we need to be moving away from more government intervention and regulation. Unfortunately, over the last 30 years, that is not what has been happening.<br/><br/>As a percent of GDP the USA spends 15% on healthcare. Compared to other countries it is high, but not by as high as the Left may want you to believe (USA 14.7%, Germany 10.9%, France 9.7%, Canada 9.6%, UK 7.7%; OECD Health Data 2004). What is not mentioned much, is that even in the environment of a 100% government controlled healthcare system, the rate of increase in healthcare spending in the UK is twice (4.5%) that of the USA (2.3%). (OECD Health Data 2004) Apparently the NHS and Canadian Medicare are not quite the bargain or panacea we have been sold. And the Left in this country want to head down the same treacherous road as that taken by the NHS and Canadian Medicare. Now with clear evidence that the great single payer healthcare systems of the UK and Canada are in deep trouble financially as well as clinically (wait times, old technology, access issues, etc), we can once again claim a victory for “free markets”. To fix our healthcare problems we need to be moving away from more government intervention and regulation. Unfortunately, over the last 30 years, that is not what has been happening.

As a percent of GDP the USA spends 15% on healthcare. Compared to other countries it is high, but not by as high as the Left may want you to believe (USA 14.7%, Germany 10.9%, France 9.7%, Canada 9.6%, UK 7.7%; OECD Health Data 2004). What is not mentioned much, is that even in the environment of a 100% government controlled healthcare system, the rate of increase in healthcare spending in the UK is twice (4.5%) that of the USA (2.3%). (OECD Health Data 2004) Apparently the NHS and Canadian Medicare are not quite the bargain or panacea we have been sold.

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