If I’m spewing myths about the uninsured, certainly you’re spewing myths about wait times. Picking and choosing certain cases does not prove anything about the system as a whole.

2)You imply that the weight times in Canada aren’t significant when we both know that is not true. If wait times were even CLOSE to manageable, the judge in theland mark legal case in Alberta never would have ruled universal HC unconstitional. In fact, the judge said “access to healthcare is not the same as actual healthcare. Again, this was b/c a pt had to wait 2+ years for hip surgery.

3)Cost, you mentioned that Canadians spend more for less and generally thats true. But at what cost? (pun intended). The state of washington has more MRI’s than the country of Canada. Possibly life saving care is denied to elderly citizens who “may not live long enough” to get the full use of their hip replacement (10 yrs) etc. Good luck arguing comparative quality.

4)Americas Uninsured. Classic case of a lie told often enough, it eventually becomes accepted as fact.
The Pacific Research Institute has a great paper on this:
“Census data show that the number of uninsured has grown for the third straight year. Look a little deeper and they also tell us the number of insured has grown to 243.3 million, just as the total population has grown. The fact is, everything has grown. But the percentage of uninsured Americans remains at 15.6%, the same as in 1996, and lower than in 1997 and 1998, when Bill Clinton was president.

One of every three uninsured live in households with incomes of more than $50,000 a year. One in seven live in households with annual incomes that top $75,000. And the Census Bureau counts as “uninsured” individuals who are eligible for Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program but are not enrolled. Deven Herrick of the National Center for Policy Analysis estimates that as many as 14 million children and adults fall into this category.”

5)Numbers aside, this argument isn’t about cost saving, efficiency, etc, its about the fundamental opinion of HC as a right or not. If you few it as a right, than you’d be willing to pay for it at any cost. If you don’t view it as a universal right, you don’t care what the “potential” savings are.

Again, the constitution says “Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness” . . .

I think before dismissing Canada’s or England’s healthcare systems, you should really know how the systems work.

At least in Canada, doctors are NOT goverment employees. They own private practices, make profit etc. but simply bill the government agencies (different provinces cover different drugs/procedures etc.) instead of the patients or patients’ insurance companies. We all share the cost of this universal healthcare by paying taxes. This way every citizen has access to health care regardless of income level (which is considered a fundamental right to most Canadians, is it not to most Americans?). We actually pay much less per capita for health care than Americans do. It’s simply a myth that it is a big, inefficient bureaucracy.

Obviously, all systems will have their setbacks, and when wait times are held up as a horror of “socialized” healthcare, I think we should also be thinking about the millions of Americans who have no access to healthcare at all because they can’t afford it. I don’t see how that situation is any more acceptable.

In Canada we’re currently studying other countries’ health systems and trying to mend ours after over a decade of government cuts. France’s looks good, similar to ours but they allow more corporate involvement than we do, which no doubt eases the wait times. Personally, no one I know has ever had a problem receiving timely, quality, free care..whether it was cancer, stroke, anyeurism, epilepsy, heart attack, liver failure, diabyetes, etc.

I’m sure there is a happy medium in there between the two systems that would be way better than the systems we currently have.

How many physicians have been bankrupted by a lawsuit? Names would be nice.

Josh: I have worked in both US and Canadian healthcare systems and this just isn’t true. In Canada Lawsuits occur but they are rare and more importantly there is no concern for unreasonable “pain and suffering” settlements that will bankrupt the physician. The average specialist physician in Canada has never been sued while the average physician in any raped specialty in the US has. It’s apples and oranges.