GM: "If we ran an auto plant like they run hospitals, we'd be out of business"

I don’t think almost-bankrupt General Motors is really in a place where they should be telling anybody how to run things.

Comments

Criminallopath
A day out of the office and look at what happens. Very few posts. As much as we don’t agree on about everything concerning the allopathic medical profession, it is a pleasure engaging in open debate with everyone on this forum. Now, on to the inflammatory commenting. The self-allowed raping of GM by the medical profession secondary to “healthcare” costs is no laughing matter. It would appear as if the healers have raped this “patient” to the point of near insolvency.
Okulus
GM is in hot water for several reasons, but it isn’t because of the doctors in southeast Michigan. You can blame the company executives who made deals with the devil in labor negotiations with no thought to how the legacy costs would be met. You can blame greedy labor unions who insisted on lifetime benefits with no regard to how the down stream costs would be met. You can blame overly-consumptive union workers who demanded contracts with high options and nearly no participatory payment. You can blame American automobile buyers who chose to buy more reliable and higher-value imported cars over those of traditional U.S. models at the expense of supporting a domestic industry and its workers (and ultimately all its suppliers and their communities). You can blame predatory marketing practices of Japanese and other import car makers who price their cars below that of their home markets–even though they don’t have the legacy costs domestic producers have–just to gain market share. You can blame union workers for poor dietary and exercise practices.
The one people you cannot blame are the doctors. They don’t owe it to the autoworkers to be another cheap lowball supplier so fatcat unions and executives can go about their sloppy business as usual as per the last fifty years.
Criminallopath
Sorry, Okulus, but I am going to have to disagree. I think that the figure was approximately 1K per vehicle for healthcare costs and an additional 1K per vehicle for pension costs. The healthcare beast is conjunction with piss-poor management is responsible for this mess.
Okulus
And your point is, Criminallopath? Sure medical costs have gone up for the automakers. They have a seniority-based retention policy that has favored retaining senior and more costly-to-care-for workers over a younger, more recently-hired workforce. No surprise it costs them more. Employees live longer in retirement, costing more in both lifetime pension and health care. And people in and outside the auto industry consume more high-cost services that have become available to use. So what if it costs the auto makers $1K per car; they built a system which by design would end up doing exactly that. By your reasoning, it is the fault of the oil companies that GM can’t sell Hummers because gas isn’t $1.50 a gallon anymore.
Criminallopath
The healthcare costs that GM has allowed themselves to be saddled with, in a way, are their own doing. By giving into UAW demands for exorbitant benefits and provider enrichment and by not doing to break the current allopathic healthcare system. The 1K per vehicle cost is significant as yet another strike against GM. Foreign badged auto manufacturers have either wisely stayed out of the domestic manufacturing business (and thus are not subject to the supply side restricted American allopathic healthcare system and its incumbent cost) or for those that do have plants here, have stayed out of the UAW-AMA dog and pony show.
If the brass at GM were serious about saving the company, they (and other big business leaders) would push for revamping the training and delivery systems associated with the American allopathic healthcare system.
Okulus
“By giving into UAW demands for exorbitant benefits and provider enrichment and by not doing to break the current allopathic healthcare system.”
Ridiculous but hilarious.
Criminallopath, you are a real monomaniac. Is there any problem of modern life you don’t lay at the doorstep of allopathic medicine.
Criminallopath
Okulus:
Of course there exist problems that are independant of allopathic medicine. Problems with litigation, a double standard on the legal system, the dichotomous standard on reliability and veracity determination of patient/litigant history, junk science “clinical causation” assessment, tax payer raping for enriching the allopathic community, clinician involvement with the anti-smoking/food/etc Nazis, supply side restrictions on the domestic production of providers as a means of limiting competition and keeping salaries of existing providers high, idolatry of the idiot populace regarding allopathic medicine and its providers and the individual/business/societal costs of keeping the current system in place are all areas that I have issues with the allopathic medical community.
Conversely, I have nothing but praise for providers that are competent and capably perform their art. Compensation would not be an issue for me if the system was one in which compensation was based on merit and skill and not on an artificial limitation on the number of providers coupled with legal machinations to limit competition and/or require physician oversight over every aspect of the clinical picture. On the legal side, clinicians that determine “cause” based on the word (veracity) of the litigant dirtbag patients are no better than the clinicians that work for the likes of John Edwards on scientifically unprovable junk science med mal cases. Unless the diagnosis is hallmark and the clinician has the ability to actually evaluate the history independently to determine if it contains the appropriate noxious factor and the degree of exposure (litigant telling you he/she/it was in a 50 mile per hour rear end accident and now has neck pain and denies a prior history of neck pain doesn’t even get to first base) then junk science clinical causation testimony should be kept out of all cases.
ismd
“tax payer raping for enriching the allopathic community”
Excuse me, do you live on this planet? With all the talk on this blog site about declining reimbursement to physicians, you think doctors are raping the taxpayers because you have this fantasy that we’re getting exorbitant reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid? Only the same limited mentality that thinks the AMA is equivalent to Al Quaeda could come up with that absurd and factually incorrect notion.
“clinician involvement with the anti-smoking/food/etc Nazis”
Are you going to try to tell me (a pulmonary physician) that we shouldn’t bother encouraging our patients to stop smoking? That there aren’t any health issues associated with smoking? That makes us Nazis? Obviously your herbal nonallopathic meds aren’t helping you.
Criminallopath
Try again. Declining reimbursement in no way means that the previous level was acceptable or that the current level is too low. It is simply a trend and not a measure of characterizing the disservice done to the taxpayers. On the domestic terrorism front, I see that the AMA is continuing to run its extortionist advertisements in hopes of scaring the senior citizenry of this country. Finally, I don’t care what you tell your worshipers when it comes to managing their personal health issues. When these zealots, however, push to tax my scotch, cigars and pipe tobacco – I hold you responsbile for tweaking their malleable mush filled minds. BTW, “fat taxes” because certain people have no self control is a non-starter as well.
ismd
I really don’t need to try again, because your pathetic and ridiculous comments, based on your own warped sense of reality, aren’t even worth responding to anymore. Good luck, and I hope your nonallopathic herbs bring you back to reality one day.
lawyersux
The medical profession is ruining GM? HaHa! You are hilarious! I guess that 10% of medical costs that goes to docors is dong them in, not the 50% worth of administrative costs. I guess it’s the doctors fault that GM allows its insurance to be used to be te biggest consumer of Viagra in the world.
Criminallopath
jsmd:
Your inability to provide a cogent response is duely noted. You might find greater aid and comfort in the land of patient idolatry for their healthcare service providers.
Criminallopath
lawyersux:
The patients, as you well know, can’t prescribe the little blue pill to themselves. The abdicators of the gatekeeping responsibilities, as usual, pass the buck onto someone else. Any semi-aware person thinking of establishing a manufacturing business knows that this country is not the place to do it. Between the dirtbag litigants, the dirtbag PI and MedMal attornies and the dirtbag allopathic providers…
Anirban
Come on Criminallopath you don’t know a thing → “nobody spends someone elses money as wisely as his own “ → In America we never spend our own money → even in routine health care. All this emanated from the classical blunder of the Congress to give tax-benefit to companies for availing its workers health insurance ,which is always some one elses money that is providing your health-care .It has never been exposed to the free market or properly incentivized . Unlike any other sectors Where technology brings quality with reduction in prize .Health care remains an exception as someone else is paying for your MRI ,and it is more of a legal necessity in this out-of-sync liability environment A Rand study shows that the services like LASIK surgery and Cosmetic Surgery which was never with in the ambit of insurance ,has shown over the years Significant reduction in price ,corrected for inflation . When individuals are not paying themselves , this is the expected outcome . Now for gods sake chiropractic and acupunture services are also available through insurance. I don’t think companies like GM ever thought of it,before jumping into the quagmire. AMA or GM like any-one else is trying to sell its product , it is your personal responsibility to be gullible or not . Only Knowing the hard facts can help you , not being a misguided idealist. I don’t know what you do ,but when was the last time you told some one your pay is too high .
ismd
“Your inability to provide a cogent response is duely noted. You might find greater aid and comfort in the land of patient idolatry for their healthcare service providers.”
And THAT’S a cogent response?

GM: "If we ran an auto plant like they run hospitals, we’d be out of business"

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