<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Two wrongs don&#8217;t make a right</title> <atom:link href="http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:18:00 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65144</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65144</guid> <description>My acerbic personality notwithstanding, the issue of justifying or finding the obtuse hypothetical to the allowance of acceptability of wrong limb surgery remains.  This would appear to be a problem that could easily be corrected with some rather simple prophylactic measures.  While one can understand the defensiveness of some providers regarding every potential action that could constitute the basis of a malpractice claim, the application of this manner of thinking to the most obvious and unjustifiable cases is quite perplexing and equivalent of denying the obvious.  Undoubtedly, some portion of the medical malpractice problem arises from trial attorneys pursuing every and all dubious causation claim with the aid of streetwalker physicians that are more then happy to bed the trial attorneys when they are able to profit from the legal system (all PI and med-mal cases require an acquiescing provider who is more than happy to peddle post hoc ergo propter hoc junk science theories of causation).  Another aspect of the problem is removing the actual malpractice that occurs.  One would think, unless one is dealing with a provider that has made a similar mistake and is effectively justifying their own malpractice, that competent providers would find wrong limb orthopedic surgery to be grossly unjustifiable from the ethical, medical and financial standpoint.  Would you really want to have a wrong limb surgeon in your insurance risk pool?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My acerbic personality notwithstanding, the issue of justifying or finding the obtuse hypothetical to the allowance of acceptability of wrong limb surgery remains.  This would appear to be a problem that could easily be corrected with some rather simple prophylactic measures.  While one can understand the defensiveness of some providers regarding every potential action that could constitute the basis of a malpractice claim, the application of this manner of thinking to the most obvious and unjustifiable cases is quite perplexing and equivalent of denying the obvious.  Undoubtedly, some portion of the medical malpractice problem arises from trial attorneys pursuing every and all dubious causation claim with the aid of streetwalker physicians that are more then happy to bed the trial attorneys when they are able to profit from the legal system (all PI and med-mal cases require an acquiescing provider who is more than happy to peddle post hoc ergo propter hoc junk science theories of causation).  Another aspect of the problem is removing the actual malpractice that occurs.  One would think, unless one is dealing with a provider that has made a similar mistake and is effectively justifying their own malpractice, that competent providers would find wrong limb orthopedic surgery to be grossly unjustifiable from the ethical, medical and financial standpoint.  Would you really want to have a wrong limb surgeon in your insurance risk pool?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65131</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65131</guid> <description>Anon 11:07&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Your pleasant personality comes forth. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Yes, we are all deities, here. You say so yourself.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;No doubt your pleasant demeanor must color and inform your life beyond these flickering pages. Sad for you, really. It no doubt has closed your mind already.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon 11:07</p><p>Your pleasant personality comes forth.</p><p>Yes, we are all deities, here. You say so yourself.</p><p>No doubt your pleasant demeanor must color and inform your life beyond these flickering pages. Sad for you, really. It no doubt has closed your mind already.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65128</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:07:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65128</guid> <description>Anon 9:22&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Whether I am an ortho or attorney or anything else is immaterial to the discussion.  You can save the MDiety act for the next patient you butcher and have to apologize to in order to not get your pants sued off.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Please inform us with your on-high opinion of when it is acceptable to perform a wrong limb surgery.  It is beyond amazing to see anyone try to justify this blatant malpractice.  It is providers with your form of enabling attitude that gives the whole profession a bit of a rotten stench when it comes to standards and accountability.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon 9:22</p><p>Whether I am an ortho or attorney or anything else is immaterial to the discussion.  You can save the MDiety act for the next patient you butcher and have to apologize to in order to not get your pants sued off.</p><p>Please inform us with your on-high opinion of when it is acceptable to perform a wrong limb surgery.  It is beyond amazing to see anyone try to justify this blatant malpractice.  It is providers with your form of enabling attitude that gives the whole profession a bit of a rotten stench when it comes to standards and accountability.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65122</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:54:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65122</guid> <description>gasman, what do you mean &quot;sometimes it&#039;s hard to tell which side is which?&quot; Left is left and right is....well..the one on the other side.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There really should be no excuse for these wrong side surgeries.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gasman, what do you mean &#8220;sometimes it&#8217;s hard to tell which side is which?&#8221; Left is left and right is&#8230;.well..the one on the other side.</p><p>There really should be no excuse for these wrong side surgeries.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65121</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:22:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65121</guid> <description>&quot;My view is that under no conditions would such an event be acceptable. There is no defense for this.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You are probably not an orthopedist, so your opinion is not that of an expert.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I suppose whether there is a defense for this will depend to some degree on the professional opinion of the counsel representing the defendant. Are you, dear poster that person. Probably not.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So what exactly are we to make of your &quot;opinion&quot;. It is nothing more than a blogger opinion by someone neither an orthopedist (I am supposing here, you didn&#039;t claim to be an orthopedist) nor an attorney.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My view is that under no conditions would such an event be acceptable. There is no defense for this.&#8221;</p><p>You are probably not an orthopedist, so your opinion is not that of an expert.</p><p>I suppose whether there is a defense for this will depend to some degree on the professional opinion of the counsel representing the defendant. Are you, dear poster that person. Probably not.</p><p>So what exactly are we to make of your &#8220;opinion&#8221;. It is nothing more than a blogger opinion by someone neither an orthopedist (I am supposing here, you didn&#8217;t claim to be an orthopedist) nor an attorney.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65117</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:30:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65117</guid> <description>Let us try it this way.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hypothetically, under what conditions would a wrong limb surgery by an orthopedist be acceptable (in terms of its occurence)?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;My view is that under no conditions would such an event be acceptable.  There is no defense for this.  One would suspect that other providers would not tolerate this form of easily corrected malpractice... but then it is perahps easier and far more pallatable to pass negative &lt;i&gt;secundum res&lt;/i&gt; judgement on the patients and the trial lawyers then to suggest that the work of a colleague might not be up to par.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us try it this way.</p><p>Hypothetically, under what conditions would a wrong limb surgery by an orthopedist be acceptable (in terms of its occurence)?</p><p>My view is that under no conditions would such an event be acceptable.  There is no defense for this.  One would suspect that other providers would not tolerate this form of easily corrected malpractice&#8230; but then it is perahps easier and far more pallatable to pass negative <i>secundum res</i> judgement on the patients and the trial lawyers then to suggest that the work of a colleague might not be up to par.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Gasman</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65116</link> <dc:creator>Gasman</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:29:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65116</guid> <description>Have the patient write &quot;operate here - $$$&quot; in big letters using a permanent marker prior to the procedure.  from Anon at 9:31.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In the end it is not about having a lot of people in agreement about a few hearsay facts, but having reasonable primary sources available to double check.  That is it doesn&#039;t mean crap to have legions of people check that the patient-surgeon follie a dieu (pardon my french spelling) are in agreement with each other.  The verifying team of nurses and anesthesiologist needs all other primary data to review such as office charts, x-rays (clearly labeled for laterality, not the usual microprint for left/right) and any other data that could support or refute the lateralizing diagnosis.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I can help insure that you get the procedure you agreed to with the surgeon.  As it stands with medical informatics as they presently exist though, I cannot do much to be certain that you get the procedure you need.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have the patient write &#8220;operate here &#8211; $$$&#8221; in big letters using a permanent marker prior to the procedure.  from Anon at 9:31.</p><p>In the end it is not about having a lot of people in agreement about a few hearsay facts, but having reasonable primary sources available to double check.  That is it doesn&#8217;t mean crap to have legions of people check that the patient-surgeon follie a dieu (pardon my french spelling) are in agreement with each other.  The verifying team of nurses and anesthesiologist needs all other primary data to review such as office charts, x-rays (clearly labeled for laterality, not the usual microprint for left/right) and any other data that could support or refute the lateralizing diagnosis.</p><p>I can help insure that you get the procedure you agreed to with the surgeon.  As it stands with medical informatics as they presently exist though, I cannot do much to be certain that you get the procedure you need.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65115</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:10:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65115</guid> <description>I don&#039;t understand how this happens the way most hospitals and ortho&#039;s handle this. When I had knee surgery, they wrote a big &quot;NO&quot; on my non-operated knee and put a ted hose on that leg. Further, the surgeon, prior to surgary came in and put his initials on the knee to be operated on. Everyone from prep nurses to the surgeon to about 5 people in the OR asked me. &quot;What knee we operating on today.&quot;  If they had gotten the wrong knee it would have only been they were all stupid and took the time to remove the ted hose. Why don&#039;t more places use these type safety measures.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand how this happens the way most hospitals and ortho&#8217;s handle this. When I had knee surgery, they wrote a big &#8220;NO&#8221; on my non-operated knee and put a ted hose on that leg. Further, the surgeon, prior to surgary came in and put his initials on the knee to be operated on. Everyone from prep nurses to the surgeon to about 5 people in the OR asked me. &#8220;What knee we operating on today.&#8221;  If they had gotten the wrong knee it would have only been they were all stupid and took the time to remove the ted hose. Why don&#8217;t more places use these type safety measures.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RJS</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65114</link> <dc:creator>RJS</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:38:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65114</guid> <description>All of the facts are not present. Therefore it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about this case, aside from maybes and ifs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;God knows that news story is terribly biased.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Making judgements about someone&#039;s intelligence or skill based on incomplete information serves only to show how lacking the finger-pointer is, not the person he is pointing his finger at.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of the facts are not present. Therefore it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about this case, aside from maybes and ifs.</p><p>God knows that news story is terribly biased.</p><p>Making judgements about someone&#8217;s intelligence or skill based on incomplete information serves only to show how lacking the finger-pointer is, not the person he is pointing his finger at.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Anonymous</title><link>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-right.html#comment-65111</link> <dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:20:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/kevinmd/2006/07/two-wrongs-dont-make-a-right.html#comment-65111</guid> <description>&quot;Considering the conclusions physicians reach about the legal system and insurance industry without any facts, why is it so out of line to think that someone who couldn&#039;t determine right from left is a moron?&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Irrelevant and not the subject at hand.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The attorney says &quot;two wrongs, etc&quot;. Nice sound bite, but is it true? What is the second wrong, operating on the side of the intended surgery, the one that was consented for? Even if he made a mistake, if it is feasable to do the correct side without exposing the patient to the risk of a second anaesthetic, why is it wrong to do so? The story reports the patient being inconvenienced by having two operative sites in recovery, rather than one. Maybe true. But also equally reasonable is the claim that the surgeon tried to mitigate the damage by at least doing the surgery to the intended knee at the same OR session. If he didn&#039;t charge for the error procedure (and who knows, perhaps the same procedure was planned on the opposite side, just not on that day) where does the claim of greed come in? Lawyer bluster to the press, fishing for a settlement. I for one would be curious to see the office chart.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Considering the conclusions physicians reach about the legal system and insurance industry without any facts, why is it so out of line to think that someone who couldn&#8217;t determine right from left is a moron?&#8221;</p><p>Irrelevant and not the subject at hand.</p><p>The attorney says &#8220;two wrongs, etc&#8221;. Nice sound bite, but is it true? What is the second wrong, operating on the side of the intended surgery, the one that was consented for? Even if he made a mistake, if it is feasable to do the correct side without exposing the patient to the risk of a second anaesthetic, why is it wrong to do so? The story reports the patient being inconvenienced by having two operative sites in recovery, rather than one. Maybe true. But also equally reasonable is the claim that the surgeon tried to mitigate the damage by at least doing the surgery to the intended knee at the same OR session. If he didn&#8217;t charge for the error procedure (and who knows, perhaps the same procedure was planned on the opposite side, just not on that day) where does the claim of greed come in? Lawyer bluster to the press, fishing for a settlement. I for one would be curious to see the office chart.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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