Due to intense interest in the Anna Pou story, the following post will be republished to stay current.
Original post date: 7/19/2006
Waking Up Costs offers his support:
I just learned that a former colleague and friend has been charged with second degree murder in the death of four patients at a New Orleans hospital after Katrina. I worked with Dr. Anna Pou in the operating room when we were both in Galveston, Texas for three years in the late nineties. She worked as a head and neck surgeon specializing in cancer surgery and I provided anesthesia for many of her cases. After reading the story my only reaction is that this entire case is about an attorney general making a name for himself. Dr. Pou is a wonderful, caring, highly skilled surgeon. Her concern has always been for the comfort and well-being of her patients.
Update -
Matthew Holt chimes in:
But where the hell was the Louisiana or New Orleans AG (or for that matter any other level of government) when desperate physicians, nurses and patients needed help? Absolutely effing nowhere. A humane person wouldn’t leave a dog to slowly die or drown in the 105 degree heat, let alone another human. And it seems to me that in absolutely desperate circumstances, Dr Anna Pou did what she felt was best for those patients.Yet six months later a grandstanding DA gets his jollies off by sending physicians and nurses on trial for homicide.
In interviews, several experts said that although they did not know the details of the case, they suspected that it had to be more complicated than the “plain and simple homicide” asserted by the attorney general, Charles C. Foti.The doctor and nurses may have engaged in mercy killing; if so, given the circumstances, it is not clear that any jury would convict them, a legal expert said. Another possibility, medical experts said, is that the patients were suffering and the only way to keep them comfortable was with high drug doses that may, incidentally, have hastened their deaths. It is not known, though, how much the patients were suffering.
NY Times also with more background on Dr. Pou:
Dr. Pou was known among fellow doctors as a fierce advocate for her patients and a prominent specialist in the difficult field of endocrine surgery. Her father was a doctor, as were two of her uncles, and she was so devoted to medicine that a résumé listing her continuing education courses, scholarly publications and teaching activities stretches for 21 pages.Another doctor who knows her well, Peter Deblieux, described Dr. Pou as having an excellent reputation in her field. “This isn’t some marginal, flaky physician,” he said . . .
. . . “There are a lot of doctors who have a lot of problems with this,” said Dr. Richard Vinroot, who was at Touro Infirmary during the storm. “It’s going to have an impact on a lot of people, because nobody is going to want to stay for a storm again.”
Update -
This page on Dr. Anna Pou will be continually updated as the story develops.
Related posts:
- No charges against Anna Pou
- Dr. Anna Pou fights back
- Anna Nicole Smith: The medical blogosphere speculates
- Meet Anna Nicole Smith’s doctor
- Dr. Anna Pou: "The grand jury did the right thing"
- Single-payer already exists in the US
- Anna Nicole Smith: Aspiration?
{ 74 comments }
Maybe we can ask her patients what they think of her… wait… nevermind.
Anon 12:27:
Maybe we can ask your friends what they think of you… wait… nevermind.
Please. Ask my friends. They, fortunately, have not been euthanized.
If you’re in a war and the enemy is standing over you with a shot gun in your face, do you want him to pull the trigger right then or drag you through the street first, starve you , not allow you to have any water, rape you a few times and then pull the trigger?
These places were absolutely a war zone following katrina. Have you forgotten that?
“In interviews, several experts said that although they did not know the details of the case, they suspected that it had to be more complicated than the “plain and simple homicide” asserted by the attorney general, Charles C. Foti.”
How can one be an expert on an issue they don’t know the details of?
It’s amazing how easily physicians jump to conclusions without facts as long as they’re defending they’re own. Further proof of why they shouldn’t be in charge of judging themselves.
For the war zone analogy to hold, the appropriate question to ask would be of a soldier being justifed in killing his or her civilian charges. In the military world we would call that a war crime.
One of things that this whole sad and tragic fiasco shows is that the civil rights violating gun grabbers should not be listened to. Knowing the worst case projections for the damage from Katrina, the hospital should in the least have had armed guards.
BTW, it doesn’t matter how impressive her CV is in regards to her guilt or innocence. W French Anderson, the father of gene therapy (pretty impressive CB), pleaded guilty yesterday to charges related to child sexual abuse. Very accomplished individuals are not free of the capability of committing criminal acts.
I recall, in the days and week after the storm, that there was triage in effect for evacuated patients. After they came in on transport, usually a helicopter, a brief evaluation was made, and a tag was attached to each patient. Those with black tags were going to die, no matter what the overstressed medical personnel did. They were shunted over to the side, and the doctors and nurses went to help those who had a chance to live.
I cried over this description because these people were suffering, and would do so until they expired. And nothing was done. Nothing could be done with the resources available.
Mr. Attorney General, are you going to charge that triage crew, too?
Can you really not distinguish the difference between actions and omissions?
“that a résumé listing her continuing education courses, scholarly publications and teaching activities stretches for 21 pages”
A 21 page cv isn’t that impressive, especially if you include CME
-”Please. Ask my friends. They, fortunately, have not been euthanized.”
Maybe not, but they can hope.
-”A 21 page cv isn’t that impressive, especially if you include CME”
A 21-page CV is evidence for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, that, or a terminal social bore. Stuff like that is an invitation to tear off the top two sheets and shred the rest.
This sounds like something on Nancy Grace’s show. All this talk that means nothing because none of you have the facts yet. I’m not condemning anyone just because they have been charged with a crime. Why not wait for facts instead of speculating so much?
Why don’t they charge the local, state, or federal Govt. with all the deaths that happened in that astrodome? Or FEMA! Or for all the deaths every where during Katrina for all the people stuck there because our great country didn’t have a plan for evacuating its own residents.
This is a witch hunt plain and simple. Next time a natural disaster hits, patients may well find themselves truly in “the Lord’s hands”. I wonder if this doctor is married or has children. If so, I sure feel sorry for them. The medical profession and associated industry should boycott Louisiana for conventions/meetings. I doubt the parties involved are covered by malpractice insurance for criminal accusations/acts. They should be covered by a good Samaritan statute if one exists in that backwater.
“After reading the story my only reaction is that this entire case is about an attorney general making a name for himself”. You are correct. And that name is Mudd.
We need to send all the real criminals back to Louisiana so the authorities have something better to do.
Doctor Pou,Cheryl Landy and Lori Budo,
It is so easy for many couch potatoes who were not in your shoes to judge you.
If it was one of my family members or myself I would thank you for being so brave knowing that your compassionate actions would be harshly judged and punished.
May Love and Light surround you and bring you Peace.
I can’t begin to imagine the torment you endured and are still facing.
You have my full support.
Just wanted to extend my full support to the accused. With all the total disregard for human life that occured post-Katrina (only some of which was perpetrated by FEMA), the D.A.’s office chooses to prosecute doctors and nurses, who stayed to care for the sick at considerable risk to themselves? Pathetic. Just pathetic.
–Jennifer
If it turns out that the AG is right, what are all you apologists going to say then?
By the way, a 21 page CV is very impressive, especially if it is filled with numerous published research papers and presentations at National meetings. I don’t know many people who are highly respected in academia that include their continuing medical education hours on their CV – that would be laughable. And in academics, just because you have a very impressive CV like Dr. Pou does not mean you have a personality disorder. It means you are a success in your chosen field. She is an incredibly social person, was even a member of the Junior League in Galveston when she was there. Everyone who knows her considers themselves lucky to be her friend.
Additionally, the majority of her patients not only adore her but are alive because of her!
Re: “If it turns out that the AG is right, what are all you apologists going to say then?”
As has already been stated:
“Her concern has always been for the comfort and well-being of her patients.”
Nobody is above the law. Regardless of the outcome, but especially when these providers are found innocent, perhaps we may reflect on why anyone of reasonable intellect would contemplate a career in the medical or nursing professions. Talk about pain and suffering!
“Re: “If it turns out that the AG is right, what are all you apologists going to say then?”
As has already been stated:
“Her concern has always been for the comfort and well-being of her patients.”"
You’re going to say, well sure she took someone’s life without their consent, but she was concerned about their well being? Good luck with that defense.
My husband and myself are both nurses at one of the few hospitals that remained operational during Katrina and it’s aftermath. We sent our 3 young children to safty with family as their safety is our primary concern.
I am here to tell you that anyone who volunteered for “hurricane duty” never anticipated what this storm would bring.
We did not suffer nearly the devastation that Dr. Pou and her staff endured and we found it difficult to to believe what was happening to us. My heart bleeds for the victims Dr. Pou and the dedicated nurses that worked by her side for those long days that followed this tragedy.
Perhaps Mr. foti should not cast stone. Things were undoubtedly sunny and dry where he rode out the storm. He has nerve to be casting stones at these professionals who put their lives in danger for the citizens of his his state.
Thank Mr. Foti when your family member cannot get pain relief because their medical team is afraid of the consequences.
Mr. Foti owes these women a public apology.
Shame on you Mr. Foti- you have changed the way nurses nurses and doctors doctor.
Just because you’re a doctor in a difficult situation doesn’t mean that you get to kill people.
Can you people who are blindly backing these people without any of the facts identify what hospitals you work at?
I’ll want to make sure that I’m not in them during a storm lest you decide you’re too stressed and I’m in too much pain to go on living.
I can find people who are blindly backing-do you know why? Because people like you are blindly judging. Take yourself and all of your family members OUT OF TOWN when the wind starts to blow again!You will be hard pressed to find anyone in the medical field willing to make them comfy!
This is all about relying on others do you the families of the sick should be doing and then wanting to get rich off of their demise. Thank mother nature, the goverment and the head of this big corporation for not assisting. Do you think these professionals just practiced for 25+ years waiting for a cat 5 to roll over them so they could kill people??? You have lost your mind. As a practicing registered nurse, there is NOTHING I could hear that would change the way I feel. I live in N.O., I lived through Katrina at a local hospital with many sick patients. I feel qualified to defend (and not blindly) them. I hope that others continue to rally around these women. I hope they stick together and hope those not qualified to judge continue to do so “blindly” on their sides.
Quit depending on others to do YOUR duty.
Please don’t be in my hospital for the next storm, we don’t want you. Evacuate, if you have any sense.
These medical professionals have my complete support. I can’t begin to imagine the horrible situation they faced. Ten to one that Louisiana Attorney General Foti was nowhere near anything like the pain or suffering that surrounded the staff left at the Memorial Medical Center – shame on him!
Is there any website established in which support for Dr. Pou can formally be documented?
“I can find people who are blindly backing-do you know why? Because people like you are blindly judging.”
I have no idea if she’s guilty or not. Which is why I’m condemning neither of the sides.
“As a practicing registered nurse, there is NOTHING I could hear that would change the way I feel.”
Like many in the healthcare field, facts are irrelevant to you when it is one of your own being questioned. You decide first, ask questions never.
“I feel qualified to defend (and not blindly) them.”
Because. . . you know nothing about what exactly happened there? Who else are you qualified to defend on that basis?
People have been forced to step up and defend Dr. Pou, thank you Charlie. That is why the nurses and other medical staff feel so passionate. Charlie does not know the facts if he believes the accusations to be true. I am qualified as stated earlier. I WAS HERE!!! WERE YOU? Were you without the basics? Food, water, windows blowing in all over the place. Fear of never seeing your family again? Obviously not. Perhaps you and Charlie spent the week together basking in the sun or perhaps high upon a mountain top. Stay for the next storm (has to be greater than a cat 3) and then you may have a little more insight and you will be “qualified” to have an intelligent conversation with me!
Have you ever seen someone die a natural death without narcotics?
“I WAS HERE!!! WERE YOU? Were you without the basics? Food, water, windows blowing in all over the place. Fear of never seeing your family again?”
You were at the hospital where this happened? Have you informed the defense team?
Tell me, in your mind, as someone who “was there”, at what point do you get to decide whether people live or die without their consent? What are the conditions that allow for that? Can we trust US healthcare professionals to go to war torn areas anymore? What if they get stressed and decide to put people out of their misery?
You can’t read. I said I was in one of the only hospitals that remained operational during Katrina and her aftermath. I realize that I am dealing with someone with a negative IQ, but let me explain this to you.
These patients (and obviously their family members who evacuated without them) trusted this facility and these physicians to take the best care of them that they could. That is what these professionals have been doing for years. They worked with what they had. I and everyone I know (mostly nurses and physicians) believe that this trio should be praised for not abandoning their post. The city was a warzone and it must have become apparent after 4 days that they had been left for dead. That is what any reasonable person would think.
Help had been promised to them for days. They were mentally and physically exhausted. They were dehydrated (that means they were tired and could really use some fluids because it was 105 degrees).This is a tragedy. Many people lost their lives. Many people stepped up to help a devastated community. Many went above and beyond their obligations. Firemen, policemen and the national guard all performed amazing rescues. They are all amazing people who should be honored. Unfortunately, everyone could not be saved. They didn’t pick and choose. Not all of these patients were able to survive such conditions. Use your brain. They are not to blame. Thank mother nature, the patients families, the government—the list goes on. And myhats off to Dr. Poe. I wish I were fortunate enough to practice with this woman who put her patients comfort and dignity above everything else.
PS Do you think many medical staff will be available for the next tropical system? My guess is no.
I agree with you. They did do a noble thing in staying.
But I’m still waiting on someone with a ridiculously high IQ like you to state that the situation allowed for them to take patients’ lives without their consent, if that is what occurred. That appears to be your argument – because they were in trying situations they are granted immunity from killing people.
You keep telling me all these stories of how bad it was. OK, I don’t doubt you. Are you arguing that because they stayed they had carte blanche to take lives?
Please, tell me how one gauges when situations are significantly trying enough that you can start killing without consent?
As for your claims that the city was a warzone, that hospital had an evacuation plan and people were actually evacuated from it.
Do you realize that patient are given morphine cocktails in the final hours of thier lives in every hospital, on every floor, every day. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A PATIENT DIE A NATURAL DEATH WITHOUT NARCOTICS? You may not have been in the hurricane’s but you may have experienced natural death. It is misery. They gurgle and gasp and moan until their body simply cannot go any further. This isn’t about nurses being to tired. It is about patient’s being to tired to survive the evacuation process. If you have ever seen natural death then you will agree that there is a point that comes that fighting is no longer productive and letting go is what is best.
People were evacuated from the hospital-on Thursday night! How is that for an evacuation plan? Left for 4 days. That’s a pathetic excuse for an evacuation plan. The city WAS a warzone. People with sense evacuated. People with alot of sense took their family with them (even the sick ones). And what was N.O. left with? Aside from those who stayed to serve our community, there were few who aided our efforts. That area wasn’t all that safe under the best of circumstances. That week it was a Warzone whether of not you agree.
As far as taking someones life without their consent, if the patient can’t speak for themself, we would contact family. But wait- the family has disappeared. They are not there to give consent. That is assuming she were giving the medication to end their life. As far as administering narcotics for pain control, we do not need a consent, only a doctor’s order. The patient does not have to be able to ask for pain medication. Many suffering patients are unable to speak and it takes a very attentive nurse to recognize non-verbal pain indicators. This may include ( but not limited to ) facial grimacing, labored breathing, elevated heart rate, moaning or guarding action. The nurse would use her discretion and administer pain medication based on these ques. All with no consent needed.
My sister and her husband, both R.N.s, stayed at one of the local hospitals that remained open in the NOLA area. They sent their three young children to saftey with family members. Of course, they had no idea that it would be 12 days before they saw their children again. Why did they stay? Because they are dedicated health care professionals who cared enough to stay and take care of patients that could not be moved. I’ve heard some stories from them about the conditions that they endured during that period. My point: Dr. Pou and the nurses whose pictures have been splashed all over the country did their best in a very hellish situation. If I were on a jury, I could never convict them. A lot of my friends feel the same way. Quite the opposite. I commend these professionals for staying to care for these patients and putting their own lives in danger. I do believe that Charlie Foti is trying to make a name for himself. What he did to these women is WRONG! I do hope that Charlie does not have to be hospitalized, in need of pain meds. Any health care professional would be quite hesitant to give it to him.
Health care professional would be more than hesitant to make Charles Foti comfortable.Sorry Charlie. You make you bed, you lie in it. Perhaps the previous writer can now understand that patients don’t have to “consent” to die. We are medical professionals. Perhaps we are able to make some amazing things happen. We cannot however change which way the wind blows or turn the tide. We are able to continue to function among death and destruction. We are a dedicated group, to our patients and to each other. We believe that patient and collegue has something invaluable to teach us.
I have learned alot in the last week. Like it seems that you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Charlie, you have made a name for yourself but not a name that I would like to have.
Please, all of you who have granted yourselves the authority to kill people, post the hospitals that you work at so us patients can know where not to go to in times of crisis.
If you are asking all of us that side with the victims, ie Dr. Pou and nurses, you probably don’t want to know where we work. Remember, if you live in southeast La., there are only a handful of hospitals open. You may want to seek medical attention in another state (and please don’t tell them what you think of the situation-it is in your best interest!).
I don’t know why you “side” with anyone considering you literally know nothing of what happened at that particular hospital at the moment these acts allegedly occurred.
Many of you feel you should be immune from any actions you take while you’re in a crisis and getting killed without their consent is just a fact of life for your patients in that situation. I pray that not all healthcare professionals feel that way.
And thanks, I will avoid those hospitals if I can help it. Particularly when the weather’s bad and you’re pissy.
When the next hurricane hits, you can bet that I, a general surgeon, and my wife, an ICU nurse, will leave this southeastern city and go to a safe place in the country with our children. Why should we risk our careers (and possibly lives) to this litigious population?
Uhh, no one filed a civil suit. These are criminal charges brought by the state. Read closer.
And here’s a tip – how about you don’t just unilaterally kill any of them and their family won’t sue you and you won’t get arrested. I know that’s an onerous rule, but surely you can set your God complex aside long enough to do that.
Stop saying “without consent”. When it is your time, you don’t have to have a consent. You don’t need a consent to give pain medication. And, when one of our patients codes, we try to save them if that is their wish. Sometimes we can and sometimes we can’t.
We as healthcare prviders should not be “immune” in crisis situations. We should be appreciated. Treat us with a little respect. Thanks us for the lives we saved. I know lots of “pissy” people who would not kill anyone. And again, do avoid my hospital. We don’t want such unappreciative patients. Take your rotten ass north to avoid pissy nurses if that is what you are afraid of. Oh, and take tour family with you.
“Stop saying “without consent”. When it is your time, you don’t have to have a consent. You don’t need a consent to give pain medication.”
You’re right, euthanasia isn’t legal regardless of consent in Louisiana, so the consent doesn’t matter. There is no statute that authorizes you as a healthcare provider to deliver lethal doses because you think it’s my time regardless of whether I consent.
“And again, do avoid my hospital. We don’t want such unappreciative patients.”
How do you know the ones you have are appreciative? They’re dead? Have they come back to thank you for taking their life because you were stressed?
Litigious means a fondness for legal contest by judicial process. It does not inherently imply that the legal action is civil or criminal. A district attorney who aggressively prosecutes marginal cases could be called litigious and the society that elects him could be called litigious. Read closer, anonymous 7:03 PM, and read the dictionary.
The statement was “litigious population”. The “population” had nothing to do with it. It wasn’t a bunch of people out there filing frivolous lawsuits – it was the state charging a crime.
You have no idea how many “marginal” cases this DA may file. In fact, you don’t even know if this one is marginal because you haven’t seen one iota of evidence.
Are you starting a campaign on behalf of all criminal defendants against our litigious DAs?
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