Due to intense interest in the Anna Pou story, the following post will be republished to stay current.
Original post date: 7/18/2006
Some more details are emerging from this desperate time.
Dr. Anna Pou, an ear, nose and throat specialist, and nurses Lori L. Budo and Cheri Landry were each booked with four counts of second-degree murder.“We feel they abused their rights as medical professionals,” Foti said. “We’Â’re talking about people that were maybe pretending they were God. They made that decision. We did not take this case lightly.” . . .
. . . Foti said some of the Memorial patients had a DNR, or a “Do Not Resuscitate” order, the pact between patient and doctor that no heroic measures be made by medical staff to save the patient’Â’s life.
But a DNR is not a defense in this case, Foti said.
None of the four patients were receiving either morphine, the powerful painkiller, or Versed, the brand name for the central nervous system depressant called midazolam hydrochloride, as treatment while at Memorial Medical Center, said Foti . . .
. . . Foti had Pou arrested in her home, while she was still dressed in her medical scrubs, despite the fact that she had agreed to turn herself in weeks ago if an arrest warrant were issued, Pou’Â’s attorney Rick Simmons said.
Gulf Coast Support:
In the aftermath of the Katrina crisis, Dr Pou told a Louisiana television station some patients were under “do not resuscitate” orders made prior to the hurricane. “In other words … to allow them to die naturally and not to use any heroic methods to resuscitate them,” she said. “We all did everything in our power to give the best treatment we could to the patients in the hospital, to make them comfortable.”The investigation into deaths at the hospital gathered pace in October 2005 when Bryant King, a doctor working there during the hurricane, told CNN he had heard another doctor talk of putting patients “out of their misery”. He had seen Dr Pou holding a handful of syringes later that day, he said.
But in a statement at the time Dr Pou’s lawyer, Rick Simmons, painted a picture of medical staff working “tirelessly for five days to save and evacuate patients, none of whom were abandoned”.
Polimom’Â’s finding it very hard to condemn the actions of the folks who were in that hospital. Even if these health care professionals did what they’Â’re accused of, the chaos and despair in the days following the storm were, I believe, impossible to judge from anyone watching from outside.
Update -
Pallimed:
That said, I’m quite concerned the media coverage of the charges and the public discussion of what happened is going to spill over onto ‘regular’ end of life care and be full of misrepresentations, half-truths, and gloriously inaccurate and damaging portrayals of end of life symptom management, comfort care, etc. being life- shortening care, and somehow dangerous and ethically suspect.
The Doctor Is In:
What struck me the most, at the time I first posted it, was the vehemence of some commenters about how ridiculous this report was. One suspects there will be no humble pie eaten by those who sarcastically castigated me for posting on such obviously fictitious urban legends.But sometimes the truth can be more frightening than fiction.
Update 7/22 -
This post is getting a significant amount of hits from Google. Check back frequently as I will be updating with continuing opinion on Dr. Pou. Already, former colleagues have voiced their support in the comments section, as well as in various blogs.
Those wishing to contribute to the defense of Dr. Pou may send a check made out to the “Anna Pou MD Defense Fund” and mail to:
Dr. Daniel Nuss, MD
Professor and Chairman
LSU Dept. Of Otolaryngology
533 Bolivar St, 5th Floor ENT Suite
New Orleans, LA 70112
“We have people who are volunteering their services and putting their lives on the line. It’s going to make it less likely they’ll do that in the future,” said Dr. Peter deBlieux, an emergency room and intensive care doctor who stayed at Charity Hospital during Katrina.DeBoisblanc said it’s also likely to make doctors less eager to return as the city tries to recover from the hurricane.
“If you think that going after physicians and nurses while hardened criminals are ruling this town, if you think that’s an image that’s going to bring people back, you’ve got to be kidding yourself,” he said, noting the recent rash of violent crime in New Orleans.
Some doctors saw the accusations leveled by Louisiana Atty. Gen. Charles C. Foti Jr. on Tuesday as brash, misguided moves that permanently smeared the reputation of three respected colleagues.Others were disgusted that suspicion was being heaped on a small cadre of healthcare workers who stayed, at great personal risk, to tend to the sick “” and in conditions that most American doctors have experienced only in wartime.
“This is vilifying the heroes,” said Dr. Daniel Nuss, who supervises the accused doctor, Anna Pou, at the Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center. “I think it’s presumptuous for the attorney general or anyone else to try to assign blame for what happened under such desperate circumstances.”
Galveston County Daily News – Letter to the editor:
I worked with Dr. Pou for more than four years at the University of Texas Medical Branch in the operating room and she was my doctor when I needed surgery.She is a compassionate lady and has a wonderful bedside manner. After long hours in the operating room, she was always grateful for our work.
I can only imagine what transpired in the midst of Hurricane Katrina and what she and the other nurses were faced with.
Playing God, nah. She, in my opinion, was a patient advocate who helped these do-not-resuscitate patients through a cruel, miserable death that awaited them.
Dr. Steven Miles, a professor of medicine at the University of Minnesota’s bioethics center, told the Associated Press that rather than trying to kill, it is more likely that the three women were trying to relieve patients’ pain “in a resource-poor environment and were doing the best they could.”Miles told the AP that there are cases on record where patients have required apparently fatal morphine doses to relieve extreme pain; he doubts the charges will be proven. “I’m inclined to believe this was palliative sedation that’s been misread,” he said. Mercy killings would be “not only highly frowned upon, but also rare. It’s highly unlikely that’s what happened here.”
People Get Ready with a blog roundup.
Dr. Anna Pou was abandoned to a medical hell on earth. I wonder where the Louisiana Attorney General was during that time? Some air-conditioned command center?There’s little doubt that Anna Pou will be talking to her Medical Board (and it’s a Board that has a reputation for being harsh to the ladies). She cannot practice while charges are pending. No money will be coming in to pay for her defense, or fend off the sharks in the water.
Meanwhile, the general public remains completely in the dark about what is really going down in medicine. After all, it happens in the dark.
And who cares about one “rich” doctor?
In short, Dr. Pou is no murderer. This prosecution has all the earmarks of yet another lynch mob that is more interested in myths than reality, so watch it closely.
I trained under Dr. Anna Pou when she was a teaching professor at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, TX. I can attest to Dr. Pou’s dedication to her patients, concern for the poor and indigent, and devotion to her profession. She is not only a very skilled Head and Neck Surgeon/Oncologist, but also a person who has a desire to help mankind.It does not surprise me that she altruistically volunteered to help during the devastating Katrina catastrophe. It is difficult for me to imagine the events that took place- no electricity, limited resources, flooding, mayhem, looting, and gunshots on the streets with critically ill patients to take care of. It is easy for us bystanders to judge the events that transpired. The facts are that us others fled (FEMA, government officials including the mayor, New Orleans Police, and other medical professionals); Dr. Pou and those brave nurses stayed and were tested like none of us have been before. I don’t know if political or entertainment value are the factors that brought these brave soldiers to trial. Be it what it may, I’m sure Dr. Pou and the nurses will be found to be one of the great heroes of this extremely tragic tale. I would hope we the people would bring the federal, state, and local government to trial for placing us on trial.
Update 7/24 -
Sui Generis:
Chaos reigned supreme in New Orleans. And, help was nowhere to be found. This was not business as usual on the ICU unit. It was hell on earth. It was the equivalent of conditions in a war zone. And, absent absolute depraved indifference to human life, medical judgments made under those conditions should not be second guessed. And, those making the decisions certainly should not be prosecuted for murder and facing a life sentence.It’s disgraceful–as disgraceful as our government’s response, or lack thereof, to Katrina.
It’s hard to figure out what’s going on with Foti in this case. As Criminal Sheriff, he’s never been directly involved in pro-life issues, so his opinions on these haven’t been all that visible. There’s more to this than meets the eye, to be sure, but it’s so difficult to see what. The religious forces in the state will want to characterize any euthanasia case as homicide to shut down any legitimization of the concept. Then there’s the business of health care. Memorial’s pending sale to Ochsner Healthcare might be moving management to throw the doc and these two nurses under a bus.It’s disappointing to read an article such as this, because it indicates how little the truth can have to do with a criminal case in our judicial system.
Houston Chronicle:
In contrast, Foti’s arrest of Pou and the two nurses is abnormal and ethically flawed. Foti announced his office had filed charges of second degree murder, but he was mistaken. As in Texas, the Louisiana attorney general has no authority to bring criminal charges. That’s the job of the district attorney.“Foti accomplished nothing,” said Timothy Meche, a New Orleans defense attorney. “In order to bring criminal charges, the district attorney has to present the case to a grand jury, which most people here think won’t indict.”
Actually, Foti’s theater, factual errors and legal overreaching have done a lot. They slashed the reputations of three caregivers who, up to now, have been distinguished only by their outstanding dedication.
Long after their case concludes, the memory of Foti’s witch hunt will linger. Across the country, caregivers are watching. Could they, too, be so casually accused and smeared for giving aid during disaster? Maybe, some of these doctors will conclude, compassion and duty are not worth the risk.
Update 7/25 -
Bitch Ph.D.:
I wonder what the families of the dead people think of this. And I want to know when the people who were really responsible for those deaths will be charged.
(via PharmaGossip)
Murder charges could bring sentences of life in prison, but dangers also include difficulty with careers and civil suits. “The amount of volunteers is going to be drastically reduced if there is another hurricane because they are not going to take the chance,” medical equipment salesman Ray Landry said, citing chats with doctors.Louisiana State University, where Pou is an associate professor and which has a major medical complex, has fielded many similar complaints, spokesman Charles Zewe said. “We hadn’t expected the doctors and nurses to say, ‘Next time around, we may not be there,”‘ he said.
I am surprised that the attorney general would rely on post-mortem drug levels to determine whether these drugs were administered in proper dosages. The drug levels in the patients – whatever they may be – mean nothing. Some patients receive very, very high doses of the medications with minimal effects, while other patients are very sensitive and require very little. The idea that you can check a drug level and determine intent is absurd.We don’t know the whole story from all participants, including Dr. Pou and the nurses: what the conditions were like and what their intentions were. Until all the facts are known, it’s wrong for the attorney general to act as if he’s dealing with hardened criminals. He may very well be dealing with heroes.
(via Waking Up Costs)
Update 7/28 -
Michael C. Hebert:
When a diver plunges to the bottom of an ocean full of fish and only comes up with three guppies, it makes one wonder. There were a dozen hospitals operating in New Orleans during Katrina, and 34 people died at Memorial. Dozens more died in other facilities. Out of all those deaths, and all those hospitals, it perplexes that a 10-month investigation could only come up with 1 doctor, 2 nurses, and 4 patients. Were the rumors totally overblown? Or was there a widespread problem, and is what we have just a trio of scapegoats?It is possible that in all those hospitals with all those doctors and patients only three exhibited suspicious behavior, but it gives pause to anyone with common sense. We are supposed to think that all the rest of those deaths are on the up and up. That there is no moral difference between a patient euthanized and one abandoned. That someone who stayed behind to care for patients for 5 days in 110 degree heat, with no electricity and no drugs besides morphine, is morally indistinguishable from Jeffrey Dahmer. That no one else bears any responsibility for what happened. Just these three villains.
Related posts:
- Dr. Anna Pou fights back
- No charges against Anna Pou
- Physicians sue Louisiana over Hurricane Katrina reimbursement
- Immunity for the Katrina nurses
- Anna Pou speaks
- Meet Anna Nicole Smith’s doctor
- Anna Nicole Smith: The medical blogosphere speculates
{ 171 comments }
← Previous Comments
Funny, I thought the prevailing logic in this country was that we presume innocence until guilt is proven. Dr. Pou has not even been indicted by a grand jury, let alone convicted. Why should we not presume her to be innocent?
Why should we presume anything? Why not wait until the case is either dismissed or charges are filed? Why assume that she is innocent because she is an MDiety?
“No, I’m not, Your Legal Highness. The point is that existing remedies are inadequate. We need extensive legal reform in this country, starting with abolition of the Lousiana Napoleonic guilt until proven innocent you proffer, followed by loser pays in lawsuits, including damages for pain and suffering, loss of consortium, etc. suffered by the accussed when proven innocent. Your professional organization, the American Trial Lawyers Association, is so poorly perceived that it voted to enact a deceitful and patently fraudulent name change to American Association for Justice. A cesspool by any other name would smell so foul.
Strike one. I am not an attorney. Let us talk legal reform. The first thing is getting self-serving physician speculators out of the secundum res causation business. You should at least tell the uninformed plebeians here the truth – that being that every junk science BS court clogging ambulance chaser case MUST HAVE a clinical expert willing to substantiate the claim of the plaintiff.
One would think that attorneys, who become judges, would have some degree of logical ability. Unfortunately, when it comes to the corrupting nature of MDiety worship, all logic and reasoned thinking is tossed out on its ear. Here is a typical exhcange (DA = civil defense attorney; PS = physician streetwalker):
DA: Doctor, now you claim that the accident caused, to a reasonble degree of medical certainty, the plaintiff to develop a giant rectal polyp?
PS: Yes.
DA: What is your basis for this contention?
PS: Well, my patient told me that she did not have a rectal polyp before the auto accident and she has one now, therefore the accident caused it.
DA: How did you verify that the plaintiff’s contention of not having a rectal polyp prior to the accident was accurate?
PS: Well, I didn’t. But my patient told me and I must believe my patient (unless of course it is a med mal case – then the patient is a liar).
DA: So, because someone becomes your patient, that means that whatever they tell you becomes factual and true?
PS: Well of course, unless I am the person getting sued.
DA: Did you use any form of divining, truth seeking, mind reading or psychic power to determine if the patient was being truthful?
PS: Of course. There is a direct correlation between whether or not the plaintiff is being truthful and whether or not I am the profiteer/defendant.
To all of the following the answers would be no – actual analysis of the incident, any determination if the purported noxious agent was present and if so present to a degree to cause objective structural injury to the plaintiff.
This, unfortunately, is what the courtrooms are chock full of. Physician streetwalkers who perpetrate the “my patient told me and using my lie detector powers I determined that they weren’t lying ( unless I am being sued)” post hoc ergro propter scam and the judiciary that enables this crap.
MDiety hater:
You might be educated but you aren’t bright.
That must be it. I wish to see the law applied equally as well as getting the physician streetwalkers out of the BS causation peddling market and I am the one that is not too bright. But please, don’t let stop you from giving up your rights at the behest of the blackmail from the providers. All I ask is that you don’t sacrifce mine.
“You should at least tell the uninformed plebeians here the truth.
Why don’t we just let the “jury” of our bloggers decide what the truth is Y.L.H.!
“Why should we presume anything? Why not wait until the case is either dismissed or charges are filed? Why assume that she is innocent because she is an MDiety?”
Well, because (again) in this country we presume innocence until guilt is proven. You ask a question that was already directly addressed. Until Dr. Pou is proven guilty of murder in a court of law, I will presume her to be innocent. Its really as easy as that.
(To be fair, I can understand why such a seemingly simplistic concept might seem foreign given your impressively verbose communication style … I’d conceal the objectives of my posts with overwraught obfuscatory language too, but then I’d look like just as much of an ass as you.)
Please someone, stop the world, I want to get off! What do you mean that’s illegal?
Well, because (again) in this country we presume innocence until guilt is proven. You ask a question that was already directly addressed. Until Dr. Pou is proven guilty of murder in a court of law, I will presume her to be innocent. Its really as easy as that.
Presume what you wish. The world does not revolve around your presumptions. The presumption of innocence is the legal standard regarding criminal prosecution. To each his/her own regarding their personal opinion on the matter.
One wonders if you would be so quick to presume innocence were this a case of a garden variety plebeian defendant (if and when charges are filed) instead of an MDiety…
(To be fair, I can understand why such a seemingly simplistic concept might seem foreign given your impressively verbose communication style … I’d conceal the objectives of my posts with overwraught obfuscatory language too, but then I’d look like just as much of an ass as you.)
Overwraguht? Obfuscatory? Apparently, you have little to no problem when it comes to understanding the contents of my posts. Either your intellect is mighty beyond compare or just perhaps the use of polysyllabic terminology is not as obfuscatory as you are claiming. I will leave the facile name calling to you as apparently it is an activity that you show more than just moderate skill with.
“You should at least tell the uninformed plebeians here the truth”
Yeah, leave that high flatutin’ name calling to that Ph.D. (that’s Piled Higher and Deeper for us plebes).
To Lisa of 10:43am
Excellent post. Thank you.
Good. It should be a rule of thumb that you should not kill patients during times of crisis. Somehow, every other healthcare provider in New Orleans managed not to do it. Maybe you can take a lesson.
9:29 am
To Anonymous 9:29am
Please read my entire post again. My comment was in response to anon 2:28’s accusation that physicians were threatening to abandon patients if not doctors were not given special treatment.
My point again is that doctors are not threatening to abandon patients.
You simply cannot expect anyone, doctor or not, to offer help in a crisis if they get punished for offering their help.
A legitimate reply would be that Dr. Pou’s actions were not “help”. However, only full disclosure of the facts and a fair trial will determine that.
To Anonymous 9:29am
Please read my entire post again. My comment was in response to anon 2:28’s accusation that physicians were threatening to abandon patients if not doctors were not given special treatment.
The same threats have been made by the physicians over not having special stutus on legal liability (i.e. abandoning existing patients for purely fiscal motivations). What makes you think that they wouldn’t do it over a potential murder charge against one of their own.
The banter between Anon 2:28 and others is laughable. Anon 2:28’s demeanor is condescending, paranoid, and with more conspiracy theories than an X-files episode. Obviously this person’s life experience is not that of a health professional. Walk away.
“Somehow, every other healthcare provider in New Orleans managed not to do it.” Yes, where were the others?? Protecting their families as they rightfully should? Only a few saints stayed behind in that hospital. Dr Pou was one.
garden variety plebeian…that’s me. and we are all the same, anon 2:28, whether a dr, lawyer, or indian chief. do you honestly hate drs? i am a simple person, i believe that everyone has good in them…cept maybe oj. do you think that dr pou is the same kind of person as oj? i think the hospital was being evacuated and she did what she thought was right, helpful, just, and compassionate. can you understand that? these people were probably told about the shot/shots they were given, they were probably told about the decision to leave the terminally ill, non-transportable patients behind. Would you anon, rather these people died a heated, dehydrated death in their own feces, ’cause no one was their to help? even family members were required to leave by the police. why didn’t the police/govn’t take these patients? I think compassion guided the effort of dr pou to relieve these left-behind patients of the reality of their situation. i would only hope she would do the same for me.
anon, if you could save a dying person, but you had to break a law to do so, would you break the law??
“Somehow, every other healthcare provider in New Orleans managed not to do it.” Yes, where were the others?? Protecting their families as they rightfully should? Only a few saints stayed behind in that hospital. Dr Pou was one.”
You do realize that it was another healthcare provider that reported this, right? Thank goodness there are some not so convinced of their own sainthood.
“Somehow, every other healthcare provider in New Orleans managed not to do it.” Yes, where were the others?? Protecting their families as they rightfully should? Only a few saints stayed behind in that hospital. Dr Pou was one.”
I think you should read the affidavit posted in the thread above. They were actively evacuating people. One alleged victim was coherent.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that working in a hospital doesn’t mean you get to kill people when you’re stressed?
The banter between Anon 2:28 and others is laughable. Anon 2:28’s demeanor is condescending, paranoid, and with more conspiracy theories than an X-files episode. Obviously this person’s life experience is not that of a health professional. Walk away.
This is about the level of response that I would expect from someone who has about zero squared to contribute to a discussion of the issues at hand. Have you spent even a moment of your existence studying the history of allopathic medicine in the United States? Perhaps taking a gander at the Flexner Report? Maybe reading a chapter in from Paul Starr’s “The Social Transformation of American Medicine.” There was a time not very long ago, when allopaths enjoyed a level of repute that was lower than even the lowly homeopaths. Do you have any idea as to how this underlying historical context transformed into the medical monopoly of today?
anon, if you could save a dying person, but you had to break a law to do so, would you break the law??
Yes and no. Your hypothetical is so broad that once fleshed with details the answer could deviate either way. The relevence of this hypothetical to the subject issue is somewhat dubious. We have dead patients… not those that were saved.
garden variety plebeian…that’s me. and we are all the same, anon 2:28, whether a dr, lawyer, or indian chief.
If such were the case, assuming the worst case scenario here for the moment, would you excuse similar behavior on the part of a lawyer or indian chief or are you providing a greater lattitude to those in the medical profession solely because of their profession?
do you honestly hate drs?
No. I, do, however, find monopolies, double standards, abuse of power and sacred cows to be detestable.
i am a simple person, i believe that everyone has good in them…cept maybe oj.
Don’t let rain on your parade. Let me toss out some names here for you… Albert Fish, Dr. HH Holmes, the SHU in Pelican Bay… Given that you have cited OJ Simpson as the only posible exception to your paradigm, are you stating that the above-cited individuals also have some good in them?
do you think that dr pou is the same kind of person as oj?
No. Being “the same kind of person” as OJ Simpson, however, is not the only basis for legal prosecution.
i think the hospital was being evacuated and she did what she thought was right, helpful, just, and compassionate. can you understand that?
Do you have first hand knowledge of this. Can you, to a resonable degree of certainty, provide information as to the state of mind of Dr. Pau? This sounds like what you would like to believe and appears to be speculative.
these people were probably told about the shot/shots they were given, they were probably told about the decision to leave the terminally ill, non-transportable patients behind.
Again, do you have first hand knowledge of any of the statements that are preceeded with the word “probably.” Were you there at the scene? If yes, then please contact her defense team. If this is a case of malicious prosecution, then Dr. Pau should be exonerated immediately. If not, then we have two other options. The first is that the patients were intentionally and without their volition euthanizded. The second is that the deaths were not intentional. In that case, if the deaths can be linked directly to the treatment, than said treatment was not competently provided.
Would you anon, rather these people died a heated, dehydrated death in their own feces, ’cause no one was their to help? even family members were required to leave by the police.
I would rather that they have been treated adequately such that they would have survived the ordeal. This is not to say that this is not what happened. We need more information to evaluate this issue. Unlike some, however, I am not going to agree with carte blanche excuses for the deaths of thse patients under each and every hypothetical scenario that has been raised.
why didn’t the police/govn’t take these patients? I think compassion guided the effort of dr pou to relieve these left-behind patients of the reality of their situation. i would only hope she would do the same for me.
The failure of the government and law enforcement officials to perform their duties is not excusatory or a basis for involuntary ehtenasia (under the hypothetical where such was the case).
“You do realize that it was another healthcare provider that reported this, right? Thank goodness there are some not so convinced of their own sainthood”
From what I understand the healthcare reporter had long since left the hospital for a more sanitary, sane environment. He was no saint.
If such were the case, assuming the worst case scenario here for the moment, would you excuse similar behavior on the part of a lawyer or indian chief or are you providing a greater lattitude to those in the medical profession solely because of their profession? I give the same latitude to the lawyer/indian chief. I am merely trying to put myself in someone else’s shoes. I would not want to leave sick patients alone to die an ugly,scarey,hot,stinky death. Oh and by the way, how do we know that each patient did not indeed give his consent to the shots of morphine and versed. this may be a case of voluntary euthanasia.
yes, i knew one patient was coherent…and she could easily have consented to humane euthanasia. dr king could have left before dr pou, in any case, he left behind sick patients to die a miserable death, alone. wonder what his solution was…why did he not pick them up and carry them to safety? why? did he know they would die anyway? why did he leave them in horrible conditions??
is dr king a murderer too?
Oh and by the way, how do we know that each patient did not indeed give his consent to the shots of morphine and versed. this may be a case of voluntary euthanasia.
I don’t think we have enough information at this point ot draw a conclusion on this issue. My point all along has been that there is no underlying basis to make a determination of guilt or innocene at this point with the information present. This goes for the a priori assertion of guilt or innocence on the charges filed.
I am merely trying to put myself in someone else’s shoes. I would not want to leave sick patients alone to die an ugly,scarey,hot,stinky death.
How about the shoes of a patient that regardless of their immediate misery, would find their own death to be an even worse outcome? It is difficult to put oneself in someone else’s shoes when the course and scope of the exercise is limited to the situation of what would the observer do and wish to have done for them instead of what was the done to and by the actual involved parties based upon their desires and intentions.
“…..medical monopoly of today?”
Please do elaborate for us plebeians.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-246.html
Basically this advocates a laissez-faire, unlicensed, libertarian free-for-all with all-comers who can hang a shingle able to provide health care and be reimbursed by insurance payors. To refute the illogical and unsupported postulates and conclusions contained therein is beyond this blog. Suffice it to say that I view this report with the same confidence of that “surgeon” who “slept last night in a Holiday Inn Express”.
The article needs to be read in the context of the position issues that the Cato Insitute takes in regards to all subjects – a very Libertarian one. While I do not agree with a number of their solutions, the article does have the history for how allopathic medicine monopolized the field of healthcare and has ensured endless employment with compensation rates and political power beyond the ken of that available to the plebeians.
I had the pleasure of working with Dr. Pou as a medical student while she was at UTMB. She is a very compassionate physician and anyone who has worked with her will admit that she would be the last person to give up on a patient. In my experience, head and neck surgeons are typically the last person to give up on their patients, even when the patient’s prognosis is grim. Dr. Pou was this type of surgeon and these charges are impossible to believe. Thanks to television and movies, the public’s perception is that medicine is foolproof, and that if something bad happens to a patient while in the hospital, then someone must have done something wrong. This misconception doesn’t apply in any of today’s hospitals, and it certainly does not apply to any of the hospitals that were treating patients during the crisis situations after Katrina. I hope this attempt to vilify one of the hero’s of Katrina ends soon. It is absurd and disrespectful to those that risked their lives to treat countless victims in what was probably the worst medical setting this country has seen. I wish someone could prosecute the attorney’s for their actions in this matter.
All of you apologists for Dr. Pou: If what she did was ethical and appropriate, why did she lie to E.E.? Why did she tell him she was giving something for dizziness? Why did she not explain her decision to the patient that he could not be saved?
“is dr king a murderer too?” I
believe Dr King is the contract dr that reported Dr Pou to CNN as soon as he got out of the stinking hospital. Is he a murderer for leaving patients behind, knowing they would die?
What is the E.E.? And what is the lie that Dr Pou told to the E.E.??
“All of you apologists for Dr. Pou: If what she did was ethical and appropriate, why did she lie to E.E.? Why did she tell him she was giving something for dizziness? Why did she not explain her decision to the patient that he could not be saved?”
please explain who is E.E. and where did this information come from?
“I suppose Dr. Pou could’ve taken the easy way out and just let the dying folks suffer until they did, ultimately and miserably…die. One lesson learned about the nature of American Medicine–don’t stick your neck out for what you believe is the right thing to do, because it will get you burned by public opinion (or the law). Why do you think so many doctors are reticent to prescribe adequate doses of painkillers for folks? It may be the right thing to do, but someday that empathetic physician will be arrested by the DEA and his or her life will be destroyed in the media. “
How true.
“Would you anon, rather these people died a heated, dehydrated death in their own feces, ’cause no one was there to help? even family members were required to leave by the police.
I would rather that they have been treated adequately such that they would have survived the ordeal. This is not to say that this is not what happened. We need more information to evaluate this issue. Unlike some, however, I am not going to agree with carte blanche excuses for the deaths of thse patients under each and every hypothetical scenario that has been raised.”
Anon2:28..what treatment/care would you have given to adequately treat these patients so that they would have survived the ordeal?
It’s in the affidavit which Kevin linked to in the blog entry right after this one. Here it is again for the lazy: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20060717warrants.pdf#search=
E.E. is the 380 pounder who gets a lot of play in the affidavit. When she found he was still conscious and alert and she couldn’t lug his fat ass up the stairs, she killed him. After telling him she was giving him something for dizziness.
That’s more or less the accusation. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but if it’s right, it’s murder.
Actually it’s murder of all four patients. But the fact that she lied in the one case tells you what? That if she’d told him she was killing him he might have protested and she’d have to have strapped him down while she gave him a lethal injection?
the lazy, computer illiterate, garden plebeian says thanx…gotta think about that a couple of days.
Anon2:28..what treatment/care would you have given to adequately treat these patients so that they would have survived the ordeal?
I am waiting for an answer……lcigp
I don’t believe that Anon 2:28 is a medical professional given the broad brush with which she has painted the medical profession. Nor was Anon 2:28 able to expound on the specific legal recourse available to the accused when they are found innocent (as Anon 2:28 noted, she is not an attorney). My bet is Anon 2:28 is an Ivory tower type, perhaps a professorial sort. It is hard to imagine any milk of human kindness flowing from that steely teat based on the comments voiced in this blog.
lcigp here…. looking for anon2:28’s answer. After thinking for a couple of days, I believe that drpou should not have lied to the 380 pounder. She should have walked away from everyone. She should have let the patients die as a result of the administration’s decision to leave patients behind. She should have shown no compassion for their upcoming misery due to being left alone in hunger, thirst, heat, and bodily wastes. She should not have taken charge of their lives nor their miseries. Again, I am not a medical person nor am I associated with the medical profession.
Anon 2;28 whether a female or a male, what would you have done??
I worked in Surgery with Dr. Anna Pou at UTMB-Galveston. I cannot imagine the devistating trauma that Patients and staff were going through. I do not believe that she was trying to play God I believe that she was doing her best in her situation (While we were sitting at home Comfortable watching T.V.) We cannot judge Dr.Pou and her nurses negativley. Dr. Pou is a compasionate person and always went the extra mile for her patients. She is a Surgeon that treated her patients like they were her family. So to all those negative People Please put yourself in her shoes. I dont think that many of us could have gone through what she and many others experienced– P.S. PEOPLE THIS WAS A WOLRD CHANGING EVENT. THANK GOD FOR THE LIVES THAT WERE SAVED BY DR. POU AND HER STAFF. GOD BLESS THE ONES THAT LOST THEIR LIVES.
Amen !! to………anon 3:12 pm
Logic will eventually prevail. Neither the MD haters nor the Pou Defenders know yet exactly what happened.
Here in South St. Louis, Missouri, I am devasted to hear of the lynch mob going after these women. I own a salon and several of the professional women are shocked as well. We would like to send money to help defend these women. Please let us know where we can send it.
Our thoughts are that if they were of the male gender these charges would never have come about. No one can know the hell these women and their patients went through unless they were right there with them.
After heroically staying with the patients through the most horrendous conditions, all personal were ordered to evacuate,(including Dr. Pou and the nurses) leaving behind the immobile Do Not Resucitate DNR patients. If you remember, one of the patients that died had a daughter who worked as a nurse’s aide or some low level position at the hospital. She was ordered by armed military personnal to evacuate and leave her ill but conscious, mother who was of sound mind, and she did so. I think we should not be making scapecoats of caring medical professionals, but look at failures of coordination of government, Red Cross, etc. Surely America in 2005 and still in 2006 is capable of doing better. Wake up and think people!
Self-righteous monday morning quarterbacks judging others — remember, you too will be judged. Unless you have walked a mile in someone else shoes, be quiet. Yes, only God should have the power to give and take life. However, without all of the facts in the case, no one should make a premature judgement. Offering comfort and pain medication after being ordered to evacuate but leave behind living, concious, and breathing patients is a heroic act of kindness, revealing loving compassion. The scarce medical personnel who had courageously stayed with the patients working under horrendous conditions for days were ordered by armed officers to leave the immobile DNR patients behind unattended!
Eeeeeeek! The MDeities are out to kill us all! Stay away from the hospitals! If an MDeity approaches, threaten it forcefully with malpractice litigation! Just look at the evil Dr. Pou, slithering into Hurricane ravaged New Orleans to ‘take care of’ the perfectly healthy, not terminal at all, patients at Memorial Medical Center, patients who were just a miracle away from getting out of their beds and walking, er, swimming home from the hospital. (My condolences to their families.)
Oh, I’m sorry — false alarm. The anonymous commenter was talking about MDieties, not MDeities. An MDiety is just a doctor who forces you to eat sensibly and exercise. Wait a minute… eat sensibly and exercise?! Eeeeeeek! Run for your lives!
I was not at Memorial Medical during the hurricane. I thank God everyday that I was safe in my home in Baton Rouge. As a hospice nurse, I spent my “off time” on the phone looking for beds in LTC facilities for hospice patients in New Orleans and the surrounding towns. I’ve thought many times about Dr. Pou and the nurses working with her. No electricity, water,or food. How can any one of us HONESTLY say what we would have done. Where were the families of these people? Why didn’t they take their loved ones with them? I think Mr. Foti is wrong to bring charges. I think we should be thanking these people for staying behind when all the others bailed. If these women are found guilty, I can gaurantee that the next time something this horrible happens, every doctor, nurse, CNA, etc. will run. I keep these women in my prayers constantly.
I was not at Memorial Medical during the hurricane. I thank God everyday that I was safe in my home in Baton Rouge. As a hospice nurse, I spent my “off time” on the phone looking for beds in LTC facilities for hospice patients in New Orleans and the surrounding towns. I’ve thought many times about Dr. Pou and the nurses working with her. No electricity, water,or food. How can any one of us HONESTLY say what we would have done. Where were the families of these people? Why didn’t they take their loved ones with them? I think Mr. Foti is wrong to bring charges. I think we should be thanking these people for staying behind when all the others bailed. If these women are found guilty, I can gaurantee you that the next time something this horrible happens, every doctor, nurse, CNA, etc. will run. I keep these women in my prayers constantly.
I was shocked after watching 60 minutes. I believe this attorney general is a narcisitic idiot who needs to be taken to a catastrohic situation such as was the case in Katina, made to work around the clock in horrific conditions, and care for terminally very ill patients and try to survive and make all the right decisions. These prosecutorial bastards need to spend the tax payers money on going after the real criminals in this situation, namely the individuals in the government agencies that failed to help these heroic healthcare givers in this terrible circumstance. I will be contributing to the legal fund for defense pf Dr. Pou and the two nurses.
Jim McEwan, CRNA, Dallas, Tx
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