Medpundit talks about how depressing medical school is
“Looking back, I’d say the overall mood in my medical school was blue (both my own, and others). There was a shocking rate of divorce among my married classmates in those four years. It shouldn’t be surprising – medical school is a crucible of change.
Students leave their homes, their families, their friends. They lose the academic standing they had in college and high school, and with it sometimes, self-esteem and respect. They see and learn things they’ve never seen or heard of before. They learn, in fact, a whole new way of being. It is a completely transformative process in a way that few other processes (except perhaps joining the military) are.”
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{ 15 comments }
Yes, It’s like the Marines, They’ve got to break you down and rebuild you..,
And it’s true, almost ever medical student I’ve ever known has been a tense tilly or gloomy gus (except for the ones in the sperm donor program. They were pretty cheerful…)
I loved med school. My entire life before med school (high school, college) peers looked down on you for studying, for doing well (you curvebreaker!) Once all those future plaintiff’s attorney’s were weeded out, it was OK to study hard and learn. I had 150 instant lifelong friends. Plus I met my wife in my class.
I will second the last poster. Med school was the best four years of my life. The comraderie was great. I became more efficient and it seemed easier (perhaps because it was always interesting) than actually getting into medical school. I also met my wife, ran a marathon, and had a lot of good times while going 120K in the hole.
On the other hand I have witnessed a parade of bright-eyed bushy-tailed surgical (and others) interns morph into the pompous a-holes they remain today during residency training.
I enjoyed the first 2 years of medical school. It was like a continuation of college, only harder. I didn’t like the clinical years that much. I hated the regimented schedule and being at other peoples’ (residents, attendings) beck and call. Now that I am an attending, I have a lot more control of my time. Time is a valuable thing.
I personally love medical school right now and hey I’ve even been through my first round of tests. Maybe that’ll change third year.
Now back to studying. J/K.
I was recently berated by a social worker for “splitting the team”. She said she’s not going to be put in the lurch by any student when they decide to change the discharge plan. And finally, the coup de grace was when she grated, “he’s too independent”. All this to my attending psychiatrist.
It just so happened that her accusations were patently untrue. In fact, I had explicitly said to the home director that I hesitate to make a decision without the team’s input. Fortunately my attenting knew about this problem social worker, and even predicted how she would respond, “she didn’t listen to your self-defense and walked out of the room while you were talking, right?”
Its these kinds of issues that cause unrest among medical students. I’ve never seen nursing students, or PA students, or dance therapy students, or social work students, or anybody else treated in this manner before. In fact, I hardly ever see any other kind of student on the wards, taking an active role in management, or taking abuse publicly from EVERYBODY including the clerk. Especially the clerk.
The people I work with have no idea how much I pay (~$100/day) for the priveledge of being subject to their professional misconduct. What kind of training is this? If I was to understand that this is on purpose, to what end? I suppose it is to make me compliant, to force me to listen to them. Well, I’ve got another suggestion. If you want me to listen to you, say something useful or interesting.
I guess its part of preparing to be at the head of the treatment team that you first have to be abused by the rest of the team as a powerless MS, so that when I get to the top, I remember my days of bondage and do not subject other people to the same treatment.
As a 4th year medical student, I’ve been around the block, literally in every department, and so I take an active role in protecting my less-experienced wide-eyed colleagues the third-years as well as myself.
Sometimes I want to jettison the whole mass of incompetent, lazy, union, highly-paid bunch of not talent fools that comprise much of my experience with the “allied” health professions, and strike it out on my own. Wait a minute, that’s exactly what most out-patient psychiatrists do! Sweet!
I have no clue why medicine, the study and practice of the healing arts, attracts so many sociopaths, cynics, miserable middle-aged slobs, pointless hangers-on and outright morons. Does it make me depressed? Hell yes! Does it make me reconsider my career when I have to make people do the job they’re paid for? Uh-huh. Does it frustrate me and make me pull out my hair when I have to sit through morning nurse report, medical rounds, treatment planning conference, a computer class to get certified in yet another specialized overpriced EMR, talk to the nurse, social worker, psychology intern, night covering intern, case manager, pharmacist, “administrator” whatever the hell that is, before I can talk to the patient? On and on and on it goes! Where are america’s health care dollars going? That’s where. It’s worse than Kafka’s worst nightmare. It breaks my heart.
Med school was the worst four years of my life. Hours upon hours of mindless memorization followed by regurgitation. I was surrounded by, according to my high school friend, “the greatest collection of freaks ever assembled.” Constantly berated for not knowing everything about everything, I lost all sensitivity and compassion. As you can tell, I was left angry, bitter, and sorry that I chose this career path. Maybe medical school and medicine have always been like this but I think we need change.
“Constantly berated for not knowing everything about everything, I lost all sensitivity and compassion.”
Wait till you get sued! You think med school was bad! Wait till you have to sit in a courtroom and have some mental midget spend 2 weeks telling everyone what a mental midget you are, all because you happened to be signing charts the day some poor schmuck came in and had a bad outcome. Med school was a breeze compared to the f-ed up CYA health care system we have to deal with every day.
Once you accept that medical school can be pretty bad for some folks, and that the depression numbers are real, the question becomes what to do about it.
There’s a lot of systemic reasons for why medical students get depressed more often than the general public. Medical school deans and department chairs ought to identify these systemic problems and work to fix them. Unnecessarily depressed medical students are not as helpful to their teams or to their patients as they could be.
Carey
I thought medical school was a long and mixed experience. Depressing? Sometimes. You are hosed down with information and constantly reminded that you didn’t learn enough. You are living less well compared to some of your non-medical college friends, and yet working hard and for long hours, and possibly digging a debt hole for yourself at the same time. Your work isn’t earning you any income. Yes, medical students don’t get much respect. I don’t know what the answer to that is except to try not to take it personally. You have to remember that you are on an upward trajectory in your profession and many of the ancillary workers you encounter, and even quite a few of the physicians also are not on a similarly upward trajectory. So there can be resentment that occasionally spills over into meanness. Your best defense is not to take it personally and to be grateful for those who are pleasant. Unfortunately some people hate their jobs and their work; learn to avoid that trap.
I do think some things need changing. I think medical schools and teaching hospitals should be made to compensate medical students for “service work” that is not directly related to teaching. It is morally unjust to extract work from students that would be done by paid non-physician employees at a non-”teaching” hospital. These practices are common and frequently are rationalized as somehow “necessary” for the completeness of the student’s training. That is merely a convenient self-justification that fails to convince.
I was one of the earlier docs who posted that I enjoyed medical school. I will stand by that, but hearing from the med students here does bring back the memories of belittlement and disrespect. I guess I never took it too personal and thought of it more of a reflection of how miserable and little they must be. It is a pervasive problem at teaching institutions.
I was quite naive when I entered med school. Suddenly at the end of residency you find yourself 30+ years old and 100-200K in debt that you can’t put into forbearance anymore. It seems like there is not that much time left to erase that debt, raise a family and save for retirement. Hence, the lamentations you read on this blog about reimbursements, insurance and government payers, lawsuits, etc..
I am trying to save for my kids school in case they are too choose medicine, but I am certainly not encouraging it.
It sounds very similar to my Executive MBA program. We had to keep up our day jobs (50+ hours a week) and attend class and do assignments, topping out at around 80 hours a week. You had to have three minds — one for work, one for school and one for home. Plus most of the students were in their 30s and thus had family commitments. I found most of my classmates were depressed and anxious. Most of us went in thinking the EMBA would provide greater focus, but came out completely unfocused.
Having had multiple career paths since my overachieving days in high school and college, my only bit of advice is live in the present and study whatever it you want in order to live the lifestyle you want. I was an engineer after undergrad, who transitioned to IT, then ultimately to law. Currently, I am in my 30s and have a family. Years of study/work/family balance resulted in a high income, homes, cars, toys, blah, blah, and blah, but I will never regain my youth and the missed opportunities.
This is sad to me. I have read through several blogs and other sources of info about life during residency. I have made a choice to not become a doctor because of what I’ve heard about residency. I am 32 years old and was very close to signing up for a post-bac program. No the age thing is not even a small issue. I have asked myself a lot of questions and have talked to a lot of people and have felt like my intentions are good. I think I would actually be a good doctor as well. But I don’t see how any right-minded person would choose this path. From what I’ve gathered, a majority of people say that they regret their decision to go into the medical profession because of residency and it’s aim to break people.
this is hilarious
Put Bob Through Med School
http://www.putbobthroughmedschool.com
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